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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Introducing the Panavision DXL

Which is slightly more discouraging knowing that the 8K's aren't potentially ready for retail production.
 
It isn't cynicism. it is pragmatic to expect that PV will be among the first in line for 8k sensors. They just won't be gobbling them up in huge numbers... I'd be guessing in the neighborhood of a few hundred.

Elsie N said:
But it did exist... Jarred's prototype was roaming the streets of LA at night on the back of his SUV. It wasn't a mock-up... it was an actual working camera. Yes I understand beta testing (a cynic would call that market preference, but I'm not a cynic '-)

But we've seen specialty cameras being outfitted with 8k sensors. First the Zena-Morphs and the PVs. I don't think these qualify as beta.
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Thank you Mr. Most.

So I think the answer to the gentleman's question is yes, it is a work in progress. I would be very surprised if we were allowed to see images off of this camera until it has their custom, proprietary OLPF in it. Are they showing footage at Cinegear? I bet there is at least one complete prototype in existence. A "complete prototype" is a broad term, naturally.
 
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I wonder if there is stage in the RED RAW transforms that LI could modify...

+) 8k RAW from sensor
-> Use Blackshading to calibrate individual pixel contribution to RAW
-> (speculated optional LI step) Adjust lowest Black level to bin data below a low light threshold
-> (speculated optional LI step) Put a 1 stop tweak to high luminance gamma to 'soft clip')
-> (speculated optional LI step) Fix chromatic lens aberration
-> (speculated optional LI step) Apply very mild noise NR for high chroma frequency low light data
-> (speculated optional LI step) Reduce colour space down to Rec2020
-> Save R3D.

Such a change (if DSMC2 horsepower was not an limiting factor) might reduce the 8k data into a more compressible data steam (ie more Useful data in 300MB/sec).

AJ
 
I watched the 4k presentation in the Panovision theatre and as suspected the images looked Fantastic.
But what was stand out for me was all the different characteristics of the Panovision glass coming through so strongly.

Did the images look filmic.. yes and no. There was no blur, grain, jitter, flicker, image pop which are tell tail characteristics of actual film, but film like tone, colours contrast and image depth was most certainly apparent.

Felt like I was watching an uber clean 70mm image, more than 35mm.

I was hoping that I was looking at images shot directly from the camera completely ungraded to see what it delivers in camera, But I suspect not.

The stand out part of this camera for me is that it's well thought out ergonomic design, speed and weight. Complemented with all the added bells an whistles needed for the big studio film projects, then combined with a ridiculously good 8k sensor makes it king of the day. An incredible partnership for all parties involved.


I just love the fact that RED can pimp out custom builds !

 
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Scott Crawley said:
It isn't cynicism. it is pragmatic to expect that PV will be among the first in line for 8k sensors. They just won't be gobbling them up in huge numbers... I'd be guessing in the neighborhood of a few hundred.



Thank you Mr. Most.

So I think the answer to the gentleman's question is yes, it is a work in progress. I would be very surprised if we were allowed to see images off of this camera until it has their custom, proprietary OLPF in it.
Click to expand...

I did try to do rough math based on the published 68 Panavision locations. But then I realized the size of the camera will encourage more drone, gimbal, 3D and VR work. At that point, i stopped guesstimating.
 
M.Halsell said:
I did try to do rough math based on the published 68 Panavision locations. But then I realized the size of the camera would encourage more drone, gimbal, 3D and VR work. At that point, i stopped guesstimating.
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Are they suggesting that the form factor they are currently showing is one we would fly, or is there the suggestion of a second cam at launch?

Flagship PV cams of the past numbered in the 300-350 range, no? That is where I base my assumptive guess.
 
Scott Crawley said:
Are they suggesting that the form factor they are currently showing is one we would fly, or is there the suggestion of a second cam at launch?

Flagship PV cams of the past numbered in the 300-350 range, no? That is where I base my assumptive guess.
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Piecing together two separate interviews, Cioni indicated the component level design was modular, hinting the unit could further be customized for particular use without image compromise. And from a second interview that the camera had satisfactorily been used in drone testing.
 
Mark L. Pederson said:
Elsie - I am not going to get into a "what is beta and what is not beta" - but your examples are NOT "production units from the production line". They do not have certifications required to sell to the public, etc.

The cameras on Guardian are pre-production units. They are not "production units". Zena-Morph is a custom solution that will never be produced on a production line.
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classifications, certifications... production, pre-production... not my point. Hen's teeth rare is my point. And if a sensor is suitable for use in movie-making, why not suitable for...

Oh never mind.

Feel free to respond in whatever way you choose. The last word will be yours. '-)
 
M.Halsell said:
Piecing together two separate interviews, Cioni indicated the component level design was modular, hinting the unit could further be customized for particular use without image compromise. And from a second interview that the camera had satisfactorily been used in drone testing.
Click to expand...

My guess is the DXL is modular...in same way all DSMC2 cams are modular...
 
Nick Morrison said:
My guess is the DXL is modular...in same way all DSMC2 cams are modular...
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From one of Michael's FB posts about the DXL - "The DXL is a super computer with modular accessories as well as modular electronics. If you look closely, the side panels are all removable so we can create new power, menu, comm, video, and rear modules which improve longevity and customization. But when it comes to pure horsepower: 5 independent SDI + additional onboard video makes it in a class all it's own. The SDI and serial boards are not a DA, rather independent LUTs and/or CDLs can be loaded into each video port for a completely different look. No other camera can generate 7 unique video signals on a single body, and we can do this in various 4K output or HD output configurations. Like I said, super computer. :-) " - Michael Cioni
 
This could very be defined as a pivotal period of the discussion away from the merits of film based on resolution. 4K film scanning was generally the upper resolving limit for a film negative and the DI finishing would generally dribble that number downward. Prior to the Super Sensor, a case could be made that a 4K digital acquisition after digital throw away would weight in around the same as film, with robust discussions of latitude, noise and clipping.

But now, 8K acquistion, artifact free, adequate light stops and good latitude present a new level of image smoothness and large optic flattering resolution.
 
Nick Morrison said:
My guess is the DXL is modular...in same way all DSMC2 cams are modular...
Click to expand...

The drill down seems to be deeper. So a apple to oranges comparison of a Weapon 8K to DXL may not totally be accurate. Does seem like PV was shooting higher than a hardware rebadge. PV lost a bit off footing with some of it failed digital devlopment projects. But right now, they have a winner. The synergy level is off the charts.
 
M.Halsell said:
The drill down seems to be deeper. So a apple to oranges comparison of a Weapon 8K to DXL may not totally be accurate. Does seem like PV was shooting higher than a hardware rebadge. PV lost a bit off footing with some of it failed digital devlopment projects. But right now, they have a winner. The synergy level is off the charts.
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I'm not so sure. My guess is the DXL is 90% RED - the 10% from Panavision is the ergonomics, LUT, and eventually the custom OLPF.

However I'm sure the "message" is this camera is mostly "Panavision", which I totally understand (I work in marketing).

That said - yes, the synergy btw all parties involved is INCREDIBLE. Often the difference btw EXCELLENT and AMAZING is the slightest of margins, and my guess is this partnership has achieved just that.

So...kudos to all.
 
Hey all, while talking with one of the light iron colorists yesterday at the Panavision booth I was told that they were working on completing their own custom OLPF so it seems to coincide with the information on this thread. It makes me wonder which RED OLPF was used to shoot the sample footage I saw screening in their theater. I wish I would've thought to follow up with that question at that moment. Hopefully somebody will ask today.
 
Abe Espinoza said:
Hey all, while talking with one of the light iron colorists yesterday at the Panavision booth I was told that they were working on completing their own custom OLPF so it seems to coincide with the information on this thread. It makes me wonder which RED OLPF was used to shoot the sample footage I saw screening in their theater. I wish I would've thought to follow up with that question at that moment. Hopefully somebody will ask today.
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Good question.

At this point, nobody has even verified it was a RED OLPF.
Could be one of John's.
Could be a prototype they developed in house - or subcontracted.
After all, PV has indicated the DXL will have a single OLPF. RED's are interchangeable which could point to a custom size.
 
Very true, Brian. my comment above is pure speculation regarding it being a RED OLPF.
 
It looks like they also have to develop their own OLPF thinner than the RED one's to be compatible with their lenses that have protruding back elements. So they could have shot with a prototype OLPF (perhaps based on the STD?).

Pat
 
Currently shown footage is RED's OLPF + Light Iron color science. This is an ongoing developing project. By 4th quarter it will be PV's custom OLPF and Light Iron's color science.
 
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