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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

HYDROGEN preorders...

Andrew Dease said:
(even mentioning it would need an extra cable), without saying otherwise....

Sold monitor for it.
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Cables?
Please no cables...

I would say keep it small, light and simple something like LEMO ADAPTOR A or B (But cheaper - lol) with a tilt function same as DSMC 2 Monitors (so I can just drop my Hydrogen in... YES).
Cheers
 
RyanFrancis said:
Yup.. This is one of the main reasons we pre-ordered the Hydrogen, for the extra monitor.
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Me to. The other features I consider a bonus. A welcome bonus. I hope it will be a great mediaplayer!

If. Its not meant to be a. Monitor at all, its sure a bummer, since it was clearly stated so.
Does it echo in here?
Sorry needed to express my concerns too.
 
I guess the question for me becomes whether dsmc2 monitoring is coming to all Android phones then if there is a reference to a camera-side module adding this capability. If this just turns out to be a $1200 1st generation Android phone with no particular specialized ability to interface with dsmc2 it certainly becomes a lot harder to swallow at the price... Especially since I'm extremely skeptical about the camera module given the significant limitations of battery and media and processing and price etc...

The way the monitoring feature was marketed made this seem like a no-brainer for dsmc2 owners and a big reason for my pre-order but now the whole thing seems like it could just be a very expensive ok phone (if we're lucky) with a gimmiky 2nd gen autostereoscopic LCD.
 
I agree with these sentiments completely and am beginning to question my buying two of these. Tech changes so quickly, that time here is the enemy and it might be better to wait for next gen. If there is not a strong play with the DSMC2 cameras, not sure it is for me.
 
Most smartphones have Bluetooth and WiFi. Both plagued by huge latency issues that make such an implementation impractical on the receiving end.
I can only see it as something HYDROGEN specific.
It either has something built-in that just needs a DSMC module to create a link, or a separate module will be required on both ends.
 
They really need to clarify the roadmap and plans for the dsmc2 monitoring functionality. That was a big selling point for a lot of people and now it's very clear RED has different ideas than what most buyers believed they meant. I mean if it dsmc2 "monitoring" capabilities require a module that costs more than the phone or supports any Android phone then RED is going to have a lot of angry RED+Hydrogen owners. RED really needs to at least give us a projection for what this would look like before these ship. Most reports paint the h4v display as underwhelming, and the hardware is older and slower than a OnePlus 6 that's out now and less than half the price. Just saw an MKBHD review that called the pixel 2 Qualcomm 835 "laggy" compared to the 845 OnePlus 6 which doesn't bode well for Hydrogen. The story may be different for non-redusers but for redusers this is going to be a big deal give the way this was marketed during the pre-order period.
 
Bob Gundu said:
In the big picture roadmap for this device, current RED users are a very small portion of the end users.
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Yes I certainly hope so for RED's sake. But they are likely to be the most loyal and influential users of the phone and perhaps a fairly sizeable portion of the pre-orderers and early adopters. Frankly I'm starting to wonder who will be buying this phone, but mostly just because it is still so unclear what it's selling points are. Without more information on the upcoming modules or DSMC2 monitor functionality or any other special features, it starts to look like an overpriced under-specced ugly android phone. I'm not saying that's what it is, but it's hard not to look past those when it's positive selling points are so uncertain. I trust that RED will clarify all this before they start shipping, but really the sooner the better since getting more people to keep preorders means more users out there earlier showing off the phone to others people who might be potential buyers.

Phones are notorious for having very short lives, maybe 2 years especially among people buying phones in this price range, so starting out with year-old specs and shipping delays and angering the most loyal and interested RED pre-orderers may not go well.

I'm starting to fear that my $1200 phone would be worth $400 on ebay in a couple months given the market and specs and lack of positive selling points with wide or even niche appeal, and that's a strong reason to reconsider.
 
No wired monitor feature as originally specified is certainly disappointing. Not so interested anymore.
 
Vance Colvig said:
No wired monitor feature as originally specified is certainly disappointing. Not so interested anymore.
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We don’t know that for sure. Wireless monitor functions (for DSMC2) will require additional modules (transmitter for sure on the camera and most likely on the H1 as well) since the cameras don’t provide a wireless video feed to begin with and control is accessed over IP. As for wired, we know it won’t just allow it out of the box. For starters, there needs to be some sort of cable to connect it to the camera... Once again it will need at least one module there and then there comes the question of whether or not this functionality can then be used over the USB I/O or will need a special module/connector at the H1 end to plug into it’s modular expansion port.

We do know that the H1 will interface in some way as monitor and control for upcoming 4V camera solutions. As for a monitor to DSMC2 cameras, I’m not sure just how much demand there really is for that and at which point it makes sense for RED to devote resources there at this time. If that’s one of the primary uses you had for this device, wouldn’t it make much more sense to buy one of the other currently available monitor solutions?
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
We don’t know that for sure. Wireless monitor functions (for DSMC2) will require additional modules (transmitter for sure on the camera and most likely on the H1 as well) since the cameras don’t provide a wireless video feed to begin with and control is accessed over IP. As for wired, we know it won’t just allow it out of the box. For starters, there needs to be some sort of cable to connect it to the camera... Once again it will need at least one module there and then there comes the question of whether or not this functionality can then be used over the USB I/O or will need a special module/connector at the H1 end to plug into it’s modular expansion port.

We do know that the H1 will interface in some way as monitor and control for upcoming 4V camera solutions. As for a monitor to DSMC2 cameras, I’m not sure just how much demand there really is for that and at which point it makes sense for RED to devote resources there at this time. If that’s one of the primary uses you had for this device, wouldn’t it make much more sense to buy one of the other currently available monitor solutions?
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I never disagree with you, Jeff but I'm going to here. First of all since the base phone unit has all those pogo pins why can't it just be a pogo to pogo cable without an additional module? Secondly it doesn't make as much sense to buy a red monitor because the 1080P version is at least $2750 - so more than twice as much as the phone and the $1450 4.7" is only 720P.

Truthfully, I'm not all that interested in another phone since I'm happy enough with the iOS ecosystem (most of my business acquaintances are iOS as well as virtually all of my large extended family), so monitoring capability will probably be a deciding factor for me and I suspect there are many Red owners with the same situation.
 
Michael Hastings said:
I never disagree with you, Jeff but I'm going to here. First of all since the base phone unit has all those pogo pins why can't it just be a pogo to pogo cable? Secondly it doesn't make as much sense to buy a red monitor because the 1080P version is at least $2750 so more than twice as much as the phone and the $1450 4.7" is only 720P.
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Yes, pins on the camera, pins on the phone... Does not mean we can simply connect pins across a dumb cable. I do look to RED providing a wired solution for this, but we have no details yet and it’s probably not terribly high on their priority list compared to all the other tasks they need to accomplish in order to start shipping the H1. I don’t have the inside details that some others do, and I would not be able to discuss them if I did. That said, from the little I do know, it seems there will need to be some form of module or converter in between the H1 and a DSMC2 camera. Think of plugging a small box with a LEMO pigtail, or that attaches directly to the camera pogos, and then running a cable over to the H1 from that little box to connect to the pogo pin expansion on the back. I’d like to see them provide a solution where we can use CAT6 in between the two so we can have a solution that works at length with inexpensive cable in the middle, more so than the current LEMO setup on the cameras.

I won’t disagree that the use of the H1 as a monitor for DSMC2 was a selling point. I’m just unsure that I would have pre-ordered the H1 if that were my primary intended use for it. Details on that front have always been sketchy and RED doesn’t seem to know what they will ultimately provide.

Price comparisons are warranted, but don’t paint a full picture. There’s the cheaper aluminum H1, but still the question of connecting it. Even if it can be a dumb cable, how much would RED charge for that cable with proprietary pogo and/or LEMO connectors? The appropriate LEMO to connect to a monitor port on the camera is still $75. And is that extra little bit of resolution on the phone going to make that much difference when we’re monitoring an 8K camera that only puts out 1080p max from its monitor output stream? On that note, if RED has resources to dedicate to newer monitoring options, there’s a great many of us who would rather see efforts put toward proper 4K+ monitoring or more affordable wireless systems, those of course require new hardware on the DSMC2 end of things.
 
Donald MJ Anderson said:
Dsmc2 not providing 4k monitoring is one of those RED head scratchers.
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I imagine it could be executed now potentially. When DSMC2 was released HDMI 2.0 wasn't exactly ready for module deployment in particular. That was more of a technology timeline thing. SDI is another question.


I'm not saying I know a damn thing, but my crystal ball over here says that DSMC3 will certainly have 4K output/monitoring. I mean, that's my crystal ball talking, not me. That ball just talks a lot.
 
I was one of those attracted by the monitoring feature. Yet during my monstro upgrade I just tought it wouldn t make much sense to trust 8k focusing on a 5” monitor that is to be used for 3D and 2D. I went and purchased the 7” touch which I was reluctant to. The snap plug and play design is perfect for my style of shooting and 7” really is much better than 5”. I kept my Hydrogen preorder because Really, as content creators, if the quality is enough, its a complete breakthrough in 3d and eyond image capture and display. Yes its a niche, But niches pay well. I imagine myself shooting some nice stock H4V with the phone and it will be very well worth it. For 1295 for a breakthrough device and pioneering (dailight, I dont expect it to do any reasonable low light) footage, this is an absolute bargain. Not caring too much about the “phone” part.

1295 is the price of a Canon L lens.
A whole system for the price of a lens, I think its money well spent.
 
The moderator part of me says I need to delete that flashing banana pic above, but I’ll leave it for a moment. This thread has me confused a bit as I made a big post not long ago and it seems to have disappeared. I don’t know if it didn’t post properly or if I might have said something I shouldn’t have and it got nipped in the bud... Hmm...

Andrew Dease said:
So do we upgrade to DSMC2/recent advance announced, or do we wait for DSMC3???
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How long are you willing to wait? DSMC3 is quite a ways off yet. RED just streamlined DSMC2 into the unified body approach where they’re all the same camera and internals, we just pick the desired sensor block. I don’t think we’ll see any major updates to the camera system itself for a while... What are they going to change? We know they’re working on 8K live studio solutions and camera heads with live 8K output. They’re also working on HV4 and 4-View camera solutions. I think as far as cinema camera systems go, DSMC2 is where the spec is going to sit for a good while yet. We may yet get some upgrades and new abilities available for our DSMC2 cameras. There was talk of other sensor options and we’ve seen Gemini pop up since that was mentioned and I wouldn’t be surprised to see more...

Whenever DSMC3, or the next major update to the system comes around I’m positive we’ll have 4K+ monitoring. The lack of 4K output in the current system is a head scratcher, but I think it comes down to a few factors. HDMI 2.0 availablity at the time might have been a factor, but I think there’s more to it than that, as the spec was finalized to a point where the hardware could have been implemented and firmware to finish off. Other hardware companies managed to do this around the same time. OTOH, DSMC2 is a complex system and there had to be a point in the design process where they call pencils down and have to lock in the specs. We’re also dealing with a system where the primary monitor path goes out to the LEMO/ pogos on the cameras to support 720p or 1080p for the RED monitors. This same stream is also what feeds the HDMI. If we want 4K HDMI output it would require a module to be added on with it’s own de-Bayer and image processing of the R3D stream. That would not be a cheap add-on.
 
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