HYDROGEN preorders...

[jordan levy]

Let’s be real here. RED sold more preorders by mentioning modules and capabilities such as using it as a DSMC2 monitor. Are modules far off? Well, when the phone itself isn’t here 13 months later then yes I think it’s safe to assume the modules are a ways off. That said, I felt the need to speak up because you’re defending RED as if it’s *our fault* these selling points were mentioned.

At this point, it’s kind of RED’s MO. Huge delays on Scarlet-W that lead to a “deal” on the Epic-W, which would have the new IPP2 in-camera that Dragon can’t have! (Oh and it conventiantly was an upsell for RED and made them more money than a Scarlet-W sale.)... Took like a year to get IPP2 in the Epic-W. There is always a sense of “well down the road”, over promise, under deliver.

Anyway, I digress, but it just kind of feels like the same song, different verse.

yeah, im not defending anyone, im just saying as a consumer you have to do your due diligence, and with everything you mentioned about the past, nothing should be a surprise. i started to realize at the beginning of the year that jim was not responding to all the build up of monitoring and modules expectations and focusing only on what the phone will be able to do by itself.
as well, this was purposely put in jim's court, separating forums and email correspondence, so im sure jarred didnt think it was his place to step in on jim's way of selling his product.
for me personally i dont like the way the phone is going or the future of it, it's not for me, so im out. id rather have a device that shot like a R3D "light" codec that you can add luts too, then maybe a cool red cine x editing program you can cut , color and share videos through wifi or messaging. that would of been cool, maybe one day.

 

[Jason Muler]

yeah, im not defending anyone, im just saying as a consumer you have to do your due diligence, and with everything you mentioned about the past, nothing should be a surprise. i started to realize at the beginning of the year that jim was not responding to all the build up of monitoring and modules expectations and focusing only on what the phone will be able to do by itself.
as well, this was purposely put in jim's court, separating forums and email correspondence, so im sure jarred didnt think it was his place to step in on jim's way of selling his product.
for me personally i dont like the way the phone is going or the future of it, it's not for me, so im out. id rather have a device that shot like a R3D "light" codec that you can add luts too, then maybe a cool red cine x editing program you can cut , color and share videos through wifi or messaging. that would of been cool, maybe one day.

I sold my red back in 2013 because I just couldn’t stand the over-hype, over-marketing and constant broken promises. I just bought a Gemini last month and supported the company again mostly because red has “grown up” so much over the last few years and all their efforts have gone into making the best products that market themselves. I am glad Hydrogen is what appears to be a separate company as it looks like the same old antics are happening over there. The action is fun to watch, but is not fun to be part of when your livelihood depends on it.

The part where if you want to buy a Hydrogen you are not allowed to say anything bad or they will sue you really is questionable to me.

 

[Jake Wilganowski]

i have to say I've definitely went from the excited camp to the wondering if I should refund now or wait and possibly sell for more, but yeah, I think v2 is gonna be the one to wait for, it'll be interesting if hydrogen is updated as often as cell phone models, which I suppose it will be

 

[Caryl Deyn]

it'll be interesting if hydrogen is updated as often as cell phone models, which I suppose it will be

Hydrogen, its such a unique phone, that nobody will be able to come with something close in the next two years. I think v2 will take at least 2 or 3 years to come out. And you will see that the Hydrogen technology will still be prevalent then. This coming from someone who had critized the use of the 835 processor.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

The part where if you want to buy a Hydrogen you are not allowed to say anything bad or they will sue you really is questionable to me.

No that’s only for those who get early access to the developer beta units. And that’s standard within the tech industry... Actually, the fact they’re letting you say anything at all is quite unusual. For regular Hydrogen devices, yes including the unlocked pre-orders, you’re free to review, critique, etc..

 

[Tom Sefton]

I'm still really looking forwards to getting hold of ours, and would love to be part of the Houdini offer, although being UK based I'm not sure this is possible....?

However, the spec sheet for the phone that we ordered last year is still listed on the Hydrogen site, and includes reference to the capability of using the device to control and monitor a Red Camera. This would be a hugely beneficial feature, and if it is now not possible, or requires modules that won't be available for some time, or for a higher price, I'd really like to know that now.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Technically, being able to run FoolControl is the ability to control and monitor the camera.... Just sayin’. And that was big news in itself when Mikael announced the Android port and then it subsequently being shown running on a Hydrogen prototype. Hydrogen was what pushed him on to do the Android port.

The real question is how do we get a camera feed to display on the phone? Wirelessly will require a module on the camera side of things at the very least. Will it be possible via a cable? Perhaps, but no details yet and I’m sure at some point it will happen in some way. All we know is that this ability is not there out of the box.

 

[jordan levy]

Technically, being able to run FoolControl is the ability to control and monitor the camera.... Just sayin’. And that was big news in itself when Mikael announced the Android port and then it subsequently being shown running on a Hydrogen prototype. Hydrogen was what pushed him on to do the Android port.

The real question is how do we get a camera feed to display on the phone? Wirelessly will require a module on the camera side of things at the very least. Will it be possible via a cable? Perhaps, but no details yet and I’m sure at some point it will happen in some way. All we know is that this ability is not there out of the box.

actually you are correct. monitoring the functions of the camera and using it as a video monitor can be two completely different things. the problem is, again, that as the expectations grew of video monitoring, jim never said anything on the contrary.

 

[Robert Hofmeyr]

However, the spec sheet for the phone that we ordered last year is still listed on the Hydrogen site, and includes reference to the capability of using the device to control and monitor a Red Camera. This would be a hugely beneficial feature, and if it is now not possible, or requires modules that won't be available for some time, or for a higher price, I'd really like to know that now.

I don't think there has been an official response here or on H4Vuser. I don't think I will cancel my order over this, but I definitely did factor in the idea that it could be used as a backup monitor when I made the purchase. And I always assumed this functionality would require a wired connection to the camera. What I don't understand is why we can't get a definitive answer. Either that monitoring is no longer a feature, or it was never a feature and they meant status monitoring (fool control), or it will be possible with a cable, or it will require a special module.

 

[H Dewey]

https://vimeo.com/283747307?ref=fb-share

Just another Mark Toia masterpiece.

 

[H Dewey]

... What I don't understand is why we can't get a definitive answer. Either that monitoring is no longer a feature, or it was never a feature and they meant status monitoring (fool control), or it will be possible with a cable, or it will require a special module.

This reminds me of my frustrations during the RED One days. I finally came to the conclusion that Jim is someone like the Paul Newman character in "Cool Hand Luke." You know, he said he could eat x amount of boiled eggs, even though he had never done so before. Then proceeded to push himself to do it.

I think Jim says he will do x things and then pushes himself and his team to figure out a way to do it.

ITBT, stay tuned.

 

[Gregory Karydis]

If there is no answer yet, then it is still being worked out.
Some things have proven to be more difficult than others. See the camera module for example.

The fact that we are even let in on such an internal part of the development process, speaks volumes to Jim's openness about the project.
Yes, there may appear to be some growing pains that some may relate to with the early years of RED. But I look back at all that with fondness and know that the Hydrogen will one day grow out of these issues.
And we along with it will eventually

 

[paulcurtis]

I'm undecided right now whether to cancel or not.

I'm not so interested in the phone side, but the media capabilities and the suggested connection to the cameras was what drove me over the edge of pre-ordering.

The media side is really a curiosity because there's not going to be much content for quite a while, so it's bleeding edge stuff, to play with and support what hopefully will be a future format. So the actual practical justification was the camera control.

But sounds like the camera connection side is pretty much what i've got with foolcontrol. That's a great app but the wifi connection is so flakey that it's often not usable. However i would take a rock solid connection to the camera for control but not sure that's in the offering either. It's going to be the same wifi based connection right?

Mark Toia's video is awesome, the playback is really the only thing left

What i am quite surprised about is that Hydrogen is only a phone. I mean why not do an android based tablet as well. Given a choice i'd go with the tablet every time. I don't need another phone. We're all iOS ecosystem and have no intention or need to move, everything at home is based around that. It's the screen and playback that is unique here, why go through all the hassle of working with phone companies and certification when you don't need to.

I look forward to people getting the Houdini (i'm international and that wasn't open for me) and reading some feedback.

Maybe i'll cancel and hope there's a non phone version of the tech in the future.

cheers
Paul

 

[Jim Skinner]

Back in July I got the questioned of monitor support answered via email by Ed Dowell (the answer is no, Hydrogen cannot be used as a monitor). I canceled my order for two units (that I waited over a year for) the next day:

Hello Jim,

The PVT will not work as a monitor for the Scarlet cameras. The Houdini will be a production model with pre-final software. So the production model will essentially be the same thing once the software all catches up.

I hope this helps.

Thank you!
-Hydrogen Support

 

[Jarred Land]

I don't think there has been an official response here or on H4Vuser.

Sorry guys.. trying to be transparent as possible on the side of the fence that I am responsible for. I know you keep asking the same question over and over and for Hydrogen specific questions you need to ask the Hydrogen team.

I have given you the official response from the RED CAMERA side multiple times now..

RED DSMC1 or DSMC2 cameras will not magically transmit video to Hydrogen (or any) phone.

You can use a module like from teradek etc.. but thats obviously different than what everyone here is wishing.

 

[Alain M]

Sorry guys.. trying to be transparent as possible on the side of the fence that I am responsible for. I know you keep asking the same question over and over and for Hydrogen specific questions you need to ask the Hydrogen team.

I have given you the official response from the RED CAMERA side multiple times now..

RED DSMC1 or DSMC2 cameras will not magically transmit video to Hydrogen (or any) phone.

You can use a module like from teradek etc.. but thats obviously different than what everyone here is wishing.

Thanks for clarify Jarred... Question: how long til the module to attach lenses and record raw will come out? is that still on the table?


Thanks

 

[Mathias Erichsen]

Ok.. but no wired (HDMI to USB-C) monitor sollution either? :001_unsure:

 

[Jarred Land]

Thanks for clarify Jarred... Question: how long til the module to attach lenses and record raw will come out? is that still on the table?


Thanks

Sorry, That is another question for the Hydrogen team.

 

[Zeb B]

Sorry guys.. trying to be transparent as possible on the side of the fence that I am responsible for. I know you keep asking the same question over and over and for Hydrogen specific questions you need to ask the Hydrogen team.

I have given you the official response from the RED CAMERA side multiple times now..

RED DSMC1 or DSMC2 cameras will not magically transmit video to Hydrogen (or any) phone.

You can use a module like from teradek etc.. but thats obviously different than what everyone here is wishing.

So what you're saying is that there's a pretty good chance that all RED cameras will have a direct link to the Hydrogen phone when it ships next week

 

[Uday Bhaskar Karra]

Sorry, That is another question for the Hydrogen team.

I know, you can not answer behalf of other/separate/different team (RED Hydrogen)... and you don't have to answer either. Which you may chose to.

But.

I believe REDCode RAW is a proprietary of RED Digital Cinema (May be i am wrong in naming the Company. My apologies).
If Hydrogen wants to use it... For recording Raw with cine module in future (Marques Brownlee already showed it in the First Red Hydrogen video- may be its a dummy) they should have come to you or taken permission already (In fact Jannard already talked about it).
I don't understand, why not conform or deny the information requested... I mean if you have time (Either you or Jannard or the Hydrogen team). Considering any change of plans or any business or technical challenges popped up (A business issue could be like, the Hydrogen Sales would impact RED Monitor Sales... Since some users may consider Hydrogen instead of RED 4.7" touch monitor).

My interests on Pre Ordering the RED Hydrogen were the Advertised Capabilities of Hydrogen to work with RED Cameras (RED Hydrogen Product Details still says: Under 'COMMAND CENTRAL' "It will also integrate into the RED Professional Camera Program, working together with Scarlet, Epic and Weapon as User interface and Monitor "), the Trust and Belief on the Founder of Oakley and RED Digital Cinema company who talked about Cine module that can give me a light weight camera option with RedCode RAW Capabilities.

Please acknowledge that When RED Hydrogen announcement was made we didn't know these are two different teams. No one told about that.

All i am looking for is a Legitimate and Official Information that i deserve to know. I don't want to live with false expectations. We passed more than an year in assuming the things.

By the way, you just made your 10000 Post with your previous message.
Thanks a ton for being active here on RedUsernet. This means a lot to me and the Group (Am new, but veterans here would actually know how valuable your contribution to the group is).

Thanks
Uday