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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

HYDROGEN preorders...

And the banana pic had to go...
 
Just to communicate what I know and potentially what is something of interest.

There are ways incoming to use an Android Device as an HDMI monitor, several of them. As for something like directly LCD/EVF control, I haven't seen or heard a thing. I'll show something pretty soon on this front. No touch screen control, but a monitor, yes. It's all 3rd party, but it works.

Outside of that, FoolControl can and does indeed run on the Hydrogen One. So for monitoring and controlling camera settings, you do have that wirelessly and even wired if you need it.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
Whenever DSMC3, or the next major update to the system comes around I’m positive we’ll have 4K+ monitoring. The lack of 4K output in the current system is a head scratcher, but I think it comes down to a few factors. HDMI 2.0 availablity at the time might have been a factor, but I think there’s more to it than that, as the spec was finalized to a point where the hardware could have been implemented and firmware to finish off. Other hardware companies managed to do this around the same time. OTOH, DSMC2 is a complex system and there had to be a point in the design process where they call pencils down and have to lock in the specs. We’re also dealing with a system where the primary monitor path goes out to the LEMO/ pogos on the cameras to support 720p or 1080p for the RED monitors. This same stream is also what feeds the HDMI. If we want 4K HDMI output it would require a module to be added on with it’s own de-Bayer and image processing of the R3D stream. That would not be a cheap add-on.
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I hoped Red would come out with a 4K HDMI module by now. Frustrating that it’s found on many other cameras including inexpensive ones like the Sony A7S. I understand it’s more complex because Red is recording RAW data from higher resolution sensors, so internal down-scaling has to happen. That said, the cameras already have the ability to create 4K proxy files... couldn’t a module be built to play that file in real-time? I’m no engineer and I’m sure it’s infinitely more complex than it sounds. I am also assuming Red doesn’t make big profits from specialty modules like that. But, it would sure be nice to have the option or have it included in the next generation of cameras (along with more power in the lens mounts and internal ND filters).
 
Just to clarify; so, is it expected that we Hydrogen users pay for the Foolcontrol app? And what makes Hydrogen different than any other android or iOS using the app in terms of controling the camera?


Phil Holland said:
Outside of that, FoolControl can and does indeed run on the Hydrogen One. So for monitoring and controlling camera settings, you do have that wirelessly and even wired if you need it.
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In 2014, R3D was a great format for RED's user market (and has only gotten better with software compatibility and IPP2), and it is one of RED's secret sauces... I'm sure some of the team wanted to keep the DSMC2 line R3D only, while others wanted to be more competitive with industry trends and include: internal Prores or 4K out (HDMI/SDI), or both... My thought is that internal 4K Prores & R3D dual recording was the compromise. While I would really like a 4k out to a backup recorder (in case the REDMag craps out), I've never had that issue with DSMC1 or 2. (However I have had some issues with Atomos recorders and their auto trigger causing the RED to auto stop recording).
 
I find it strange that even hollywood is happy with pulling focus on 1080 monitors for 8k shooting. I really thought you could have one feed with full view, and one feed to another monitor with a croped version for 1:1. That would atleast be ok for alot of scenarios.

Having two monitors with the same feed renders out the point of having two monitors some how with eception for if you have a focus puller or some kind of focus tool switch on your second monitor.

Do you think its totally fine to pull focus for 8k hdr on a 1080 5" or 7" monitor without hitting the 1:1 button?
 
Joel Arvidsson said:
I find it strange that even hollywood is happy with pulling focus on 1080 monitors for 8k shooting. I really thought you could have one feed with full view, and one feed to another monitor with a croped version for 1:1. That would atleast be ok for alot of scenarios.

Having two monitors with the same feed renders out the point of having two monitors some how with eception for if you have a focus puller or some kind of focus tool switch on your second monitor.

Do you think its totally fine to pull focus for 8k hdr on a 1080 5" or 7" monitor without hitting the 1:1 button?
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well for most of hollywood, pulling focus off a monitor is still a relatively new idea. most of my AC's still use it as more of a guide to what im framing up rather using it for focus. i still have a couple of AC's that dont need a monitor at all.

also, im glad jarred spoke up about something i already realized a long time ago, there is no capability in the camera to send video wirelessly. he mentioned this to me day one when these new bodies with wifi were released. I also never saw how wiring your phone to the camera would be better option then having a monitor that was made for this purpose...and camera control was always just having fool control capability, which at the time mentioned was big because there was no android release of the app. for me, i bought the app, but i have never ever had the instance where i had to use it.

i think the rumors of hydrogen capabilities grow and grow on these threads with no correction or oversight until they are overblown. i dont think it's jarred's job to chime in unless it pertains to his cameras, he has enough going on, but i think Jim should chime in much earlier in some instances with corrections. for example; early on, it was almost coming to be a fact that the phone would shoot r3d. finally jim came on and said that would be much later on in a module, not the phone itself. that was my first step in taking everything being rumored with a grain of salt. its going to an android phone, with new type of display, with some "possible" modularity in the distant future. that's it.
 
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jordan levy said:
well for most of hollywood, pulling focus off a monitor is still a relatively new idea. most of my AC's still use it as more of a guide to what im framing up rather using it for focus. i still have a couple of AC's that dont need a monitor at all.
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This. All too often if I’m pulling focus as 1AC I don’t have direct hands on camera or a vantage point where I have my face in a monitor. It’s all about marks and measurements. When I am operating the camera directly or have a prime view of a monitor, I use the focus assist tools to check my work, not to actually focus. Lenses have markings for a reason. FF wheels are swappable and designed to make marks on for a reason. And if you’re focusing based on what you see in the monitor, then you’re already behind the action. Even when operating the camera directly and all by myself, I still primarily focus off marks and use the tools to check.

also, im glad jarred spoke up about something i already realized a long time ago, there is no capability in the camera to send video wirelessly. he mentioned this to me day one when these new bodies with wifi were released. I also never saw how wiring your phone to the camera would be better option then having a monitor that was made for this purpose...and camera control was always just having fool control capability, which at the time mentioned was big because there was no android release of the app. for me, i bought the app, but i have never ever had the instance where i had to use it.
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Yep.

EDIT> Just wanted to add that I do use FoolControl quite a bit. But differently than the monitors... It’s just another great tool to have.

i think the rumors of hydrogen capabilities grow and grow on these threads with no correction or oversight until they are overblown. i dont think it's jarred's job to chime in unless it pertains to his cameras, he has enough going on, but i think Jim should chime in much earlier in some instances with corrections. for example; early on, it was almost coming to be a fact that the phone would shoot r3d. finally jim came on and said that would be much later on in a module, not the phone itself. that was my first step in taking everything being rumored with a grain of salt. its going to an android phone, with new type of display, with some "possible" modularity in the distant future. that's it.
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Definitely. And one would think that here on RedUser of all places, people would have learned to temper their expectations a bit. Rumors tend to spin and grow with each new assumption. The longer a project takes, the more people seem to expect from it and with little basis for the growing expectations.
 
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jordan levy said:
i think the rumors of hydrogen capabilities grow and grow on these threads with no correction or oversight until they are overblown. i dont think it's jarred's job to chime in unless it pertains to his cameras, he has enough going on, but i think Jim should chime in much earlier in some instances with corrections. for example; early on, it was almost coming to be a fact that the phone would shoot r3d. finally jim came on and said that would be much later on in a module, not the phone itself. that was my first step in taking everything being rumored with a grain of salt. its going to an android phone, with new type of display, with some "possible" modularity in the distant future. that's it.
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Respectfully, using the H1 as a monitor wasn't a rumor. It was explicitly stated on the actual document we all perused before dropping down our cash for the product. I know "all things are subject to change". I understand that's part of the process. I do request that someone from the hydrogen team would either give us an explanation or show us how this can be done. I think most of us understood 'working together with Scarlet, EPIC and Weapon as user interface and Monitor' as a basic capability of the phone.
 
RyanFrancis said:
Respectfully, using the H1 as a monitor wasn't a rumor. It was explicitly stated on the actual document we all perused before dropping down our cash for the product. I know "all things are subject to change". I understand that's part of the process. I do request that someone from the hydrogen team would either give us an explanation or show us how this can be done. I think most of us understood 'working together with Scarlet, EPIC and Weapon as user interface and Monitor' as a basic capability of the phone.
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but you have to read btwn the lines, like in any advertising. it never said the phone would be able to do that on it's own and it was already a stated fact that no red cameras had any built in wireless video transmission capabilities. so obviously something else would be needed to achieve the sales pitch promises, then modules were mentioned, but then they were also mentioned to be far off, not in the near future. but the monitoring capability talks still grew and grew without anyone chiming in on the hydrogen side, it took jarred to come in and say his cameras do not have that function and to me, and most people i know, this was already a known impossibility, at least with the cameras as is.
 
The DSMC 1 and DSMC2 use pogo connectors for monitors. The photo of the Hydrogen shows pogo connector. There was never any mention of video wireless transmission from DSMC cameras directly since it does not exist. There was mention that the in Hydrogen pre-order announcement that it would function as a monitor for DSMC cameras. Hence the lackluster posts.
 
Vance Colvig said:
There was never any mention of video wireless transmission from DSMC cameras directly since it does not exist. There was mention that the in Hydrogen pre-order announcement that it would function as a monitor for DSMC cameras.
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That's why smart people aren't saying anything (just-jokin' - lol)... don't know who came out with wireless option... POGO connection yes (& only)
 
Today is the 13 month mark from the preorder day. That's a long time with no updates. Will it now have 5G capability? Can we roll over our pre orders to the V2 version? As the V1 was supposed to drop a little bit before the iPhone X right now is when they should've been announcing the next version so I'm sure it's already designed.

At this point I would not be surprised if they scrap the V1 altogether and jump into the V2 with the latest snapdragon and 5G and ship 4Q this year, I'd wait for that.
 
Hard to jump onto a fast moving train. Cell phones are evolving rapidly and what was amazing a couple years ago is standard issue now. Seems like you just gotta jump in with your best Version 1 product and then rapidly improve on it to get in the race. The hardest thing for RED at this point is to have a absolute design / engineering lock-out date and stick to it. That means no more "just one more thing". Otherwise the pretty little thing will never get produced
 
jordan levy said:
but you have to read btwn the lines, like in any advertising. it never said the phone would be able to do that on it's own and it was already a stated fact that no red cameras had any built in wireless video transmission capabilities. so obviously something else would be needed to achieve the sales pitch promises, then modules were mentioned, but then they were also mentioned to be far off, not in the near future. but the monitoring capability talks still grew and grew without anyone chiming in on the hydrogen side, it took jarred to come in and say his cameras do not have that function and to me, and most people i know, this was already a known impossibility, at least with the cameras as is.
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Let’s be real here. RED sold more preorders by mentioning modules and capabilities such as using it as a DSMC2 monitor. Are modules far off? Well, when the phone itself isn’t here 13 months later then yes I think it’s safe to assume the modules are a ways off. That said, I felt the need to speak up because you’re defending RED as if it’s *our fault* these selling points were mentioned.

At this point, it’s kind of RED’s MO. Huge delays on Scarlet-W that lead to a “deal” on the Epic-W, which would have the new IPP2 in-camera that Dragon can’t have! (Oh and it conventiantly was an upsell for RED and made them more money than a Scarlet-W sale.)... Took like a year to get IPP2 in the Epic-W. There is always a sense of “well down the road”, over promise, under deliver.

Anyway, I digress, but it just kind of feels like the same song, different verse.
 
Josh Becker said:
Let’s be real here. RED sold more preorders by mentioning modules and capabilities such as using it as a DSMC2 monitor. Are modules far off? Well, when the phone itself isn’t here 13 months later then yes I think it’s safe to assume the modules are a ways off. That said, I felt the need to speak up because you’re defending RED as if it’s *our fault* these selling points were mentioned.

At this point, it’s kind of RED’s MO. Huge delays on Scarlet-W that lead to a “deal” on the Epic-W, which would have the new IPP2 in-camera that Dragon can’t have! (Oh and it conventiantly was an upsell for RED and made them more money than a Scarlet-W sale.)... Took like a year to get IPP2 in the Epic-W. There is always a sense of “well down the road”, over promise, under deliver.

Anyway, I digress, but it just kind of feels like the same song, different verse.
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Hey Josh I think you need to seperate the two. When Scarlet-W was announced, On the announcement date I said it would ship 2 months later, and it started shipping exactly 2 months later. As with pretty much everything else we have released in the last few years, we havn't been late, we just can never make enough of them. There is a difference between being late because it's not ready and being late because you are in perpetual backorder because of over-demand. On the camera side I'd like to think we have gotten dramatically better at being late and announcing things before they are ready.

Hydrogen is a completely different beast with a completely different team and a completely different set of rules for manufacturing that they are still learning to navigate, and I think Jim has been very forthcoming about that.
 
Hi :)
I guess wireless monitoring is out of the question, but is it possible to use a HDMI - USB-C cable from a camera (any camera with HDMI out) and use the H1 as a monitor?
Could it maybe even record this video feed to a SD card in the H1? (R3D? ProRes 422?)
Is it possible to use two SD cards instead of one SD card and a sim card, and record to both cards?

Sorry.. I did not really do verry much reasearch on this, and was just hoping someone here knew :)
 
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