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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

HP 820 Tower - RED EDITION

Matt Gottshalk said:
And their roll out of FCP-X, the EOL of FCP7,Color, DVDStudio shoes how much they are "committed".

How's that Red workflow in FCP-X?
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While I happen to be happy with FCP-X and my Mac/RED workflow right now, that isn't my point. I am saying that it is never too late for a company to "come back" and regain some market share - Adobe being a case in point. I am not counting Apple out just yet. YMMV.
 
Jarred Land said:
mine as well :)
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understatement of year...:P

It was HDfor indies that I first read about the RED ONE :) - even had a "potential vapor ware" comment as I recall... lol

I found out about HDforindies on DVX user actually... wow time flies.

anyway I want to 2nd thru 1000 that Jeff Kilgore gets his own thread!
 
Mike Halper said:
Well if you're going to go that way with OS X and Unix, you need to go all the way back to 1980 (though it actually goes back to the early 70's) for DOS with Windows. Just like DOS grew into Windows and Windows went from there, so did Unix grow and OS X came from that and has grown since. And Unix is still considered THE more powerful operating system and is also the basis for Linux.
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Not the "technical underpinnings" (Beadle's claim). The NT kernel was written from scratch beginning in 1988-1989 by Dave Cutler and crew when Bill Gates hired them away from DEC. The concepts cut new ground for a PC OS and introduced features that other OS's (including UNIX and it's eventual grandchild OS X) would not get for some time: threads, SMP, etc...,


The DOS based Windows undperpinnings were jettisoned when Windows ME went away, and the entire Windows family was moved to the NT codebase beginning with Windows XP. The underlying UNIX kernel in OS X is no more powerful than that in Windows, and hasn't been for a long time. People using those old arguments to support their choices today are doing so out of ignorance. Now, that's not to say that there aren't other features of the OS they prefer, but "Windows is creaky and based on DOS" ain't one of them.

Whiich is why this workstation from HP is such a nice development. Powerful hardware, a modern OS, software from an aggressive app developer, RED supported, and from a reliable VAR. Good stuff. (Did I steer this back on topic sufficiently? :001_cool: )

Again, I enjoy fine wine and beautiful art. But when I have work to do, I want powerful tools... color or packaging doesn't matter so much.

-sc
 
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Now back to the HP Z820 in question.
Im researching on this for a possible future purchase.
I noticed the bare bones 16 Cores start around 5k without video card and toppings.
Is it safe to say that adding more RAM/HD a cheaper option via 3rd party or best to let HP take care of that?
I think I read somewhere here that the internal Mag reader can be purchase from RED and we have a few ROCKETS to use.
The video card is a different story Im sure.
 
Jarred Land said:
Yes we would.. I would even give Jeff a banner. That kinda info is priceless. Kinda like HDforindies was when it started, remember that?
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Hehe... I would take you up on that, but I don't currently have an online blog. I get tons of requests to do one and I probably should. It would actually save me time and allow me to collect thoughts into one place. Let me ponder this one for a bit.
 
Steven Caesare said:
The NT kernel was written from scratch beginning in 1988-1989 by Dave Cutler and crew when Bill Gates hired them away from DEC.
-sc
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I'm a proud ex-member of that crew having worked as a software developer on Windows NT. I wrote the AppleTalk protocol on NT which helped NT workstations make inroads into Novell strongholds. I then worked on a team porting Softimage software onto NT, which helped NT workstations make inroads into Silicon Graphics territory. Where are SGI and Novell today?

Everyone who thinks Macbook Pro will be/is sufficient are assuming that content creators' demands will remain static. They won't. Sure there'll be a overlap period, which is where we are now. But soon as the consumer tools get strong enough to handle editing 5K natively, the pros could have moved on to something that requires 10x the horsepower.

In short, if Apple does not stay committed to the pros, they will give up the market. Which may be OK with them. They know that no matter how and where the content is CREATED, their devices will be the ones used to CONSUME it. And that could be just fine from their pov.

Speaking of content creators, I mean, even someone shooting on an iPhone IS a content creator, and I think on RED user we often implcitly talk about a certain kind of content creator who requires more than what the consumer level goods can offer. My hope is that companies like HP (bringing this back on track) will become strong partners with companies like RED, remain nimble, responsive and stay on the side of content creators who require horsepower, open architecture, integration, etc.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
Hehe... I would take you up on that, but I don't currently have an online blog. I get tons of requests to do one and I probably should. It would actually save me time and allow me to collect thoughts into one place. Let me ponder this one for a bit.
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Well Jeff my offer is still good to Do the Back of house Of the Blog is you want...;)
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
Hehe... I would take you up on that, but I don't currently have an online blog. I get tons of requests to do one and I probably should. It would actually save me time and allow me to collect thoughts into one place. Let me ponder this one for a bit.
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Jeff, I'm probably the only one who thinks this way, but I like what you do, the way you do it currently. That is, you address issues as they arise and contribute to the clarity of the issue. The blog idea would be fine if you still had time to roam Reduser and put out the fires of misinformation as they arise, in whatever thread they arise in.

However you decide to go forward, it will be valuable.
 
Jarred Land said:
Man we need to give Jeff a whole damn forum just for himself.
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Jeff is one of the few people I always read.. (and I normaly try and ingore people that like computers ;-) If we could have something like the Red team tag system that was customisable ?? That way we could flag those we consider always worth reading and be able to bounce threw these long long thread quickly???
 
Bob Gundu said:
Nuke is definitely the way go and it's light years ahead of Shake. For simple mattes I still love opening it up. The interface is so primitive but so powerful. Old habits can be hard to let go.
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Some who use both find Eyeon's Fusion much faster than Nuke - but ... each certainly has its own advantages and acolytes.

BTW - many of the larger houses have Shake's source code, and have been modifying it for quite some time, no doubt morphed into something quite different than the commercial product.

As for the Apple vs PC flame wars .... you cannot use logic to argue someone out of a position that they did not originally arrive at through logic.

The inherent 'confirmation bias' in all of us is a bit too strong to even attempt responding to some of the more interesting comments.
 
Nikhil Kamkolkar said:
I'm a proud ex-member of that crew having worked as a software developer on Windows NT. I wrote the AppleTalk protocol on NT which helped NT workstations make inroads into Novell strongholds. I then worked on a team porting Softimage software onto NT, which helped NT workstations make inroads into Silicon Graphics territory. Where are SGI and Novell today?

Everyone who thinks Macbook Pro will be/is sufficient are assuming that content creators' demands will remain static. They won't. Sure there'll be a overlap period, which is where we are now. But soon as the consumer tools get strong enough to handle editing 5K natively, the pros could have moved on to something that requires 10x the horsepower.

In short, if Apple does not stay committed to the pros, they will give up the market. Which may be OK with them. They know that no matter how and where the content is CREATED, their devices will be the ones used to CONSUME it. And that could be just fine from their pov.

Speaking of content creators, I mean, even someone shooting on an iPhone IS a content creator, and I think on RED user we often implcitly talk about a certain kind of content creator who requires more than what the consumer level goods can offer. My hope is that companies like HP (bringing this back on track) will become strong partners with companies like RED, remain nimble, responsive and stay on the side of content creators who require horsepower, open architecture, integration, etc.
Click to expand...

Well observed, and well said.
 
Steven Caesare said:
Not the "technical underpinnings" (Beadle's claim). The NT kernel was written from scratch beginning in 1988-1989 by Dave Cutler and crew when Bill Gates hired them away from DEC. The concepts cut new ground for a PC OS and introduced features that other OS's (including UNIX and it's eventual grandchild OS X) would not get for some time: threads, SMP, etc...,


The DOS based Windows undperpinnings were jettisoned when Windows ME went away, and the entire Windows family was moved to the NT codebase beginning with Windows XP. The underlying UNIX kernel in OS X is no more powerful than that in Windows, and hasn't been for a long time. People using those old arguments to support their choices today are doing so out of ignorance. Now, that's not to say that there aren't other features of the OS they prefer, but "Windows is creaky and based on DOS" ain't one of them.

Whiich is why this workstation from HP is such a nice development. Powerful hardware, a modern OS, software from an aggressive app developer, RED supported, and from a reliable VAR. Good stuff. (Did I steer this back on topic sufficiently? :001_cool: )

Again, I enjoy fine wine and beautiful art. But when I have work to do, I want powerful tools... color or packaging doesn't matter so much.

-sc
Click to expand...

I wasn't saying the current Windows was based on DOS, but Windows did grow out of DOS, new kernel or not it was still the basis for Windows and they still had to build in compatibility. Honestly I have not touched Windows 7 other than trying to help a friend out with something briefly. Have not had a need to, and have no desire to. It may be stable, robust, and fast, but it's still Windows. I don't like using Windows. Unless you've used Windows a lot (which I have in the past since Windows 3.0 and was trained and certified as a Windows network administrator through Windows XP) it's not intuitive to do many many things with Windows. People get frustrated using Windows. I find it messy. I find OS X to be a lot easier to use, quicker to do things with, better thought out UI-wise, and much more intuitive. It's not perfect, no OS is going to be, but I prefer using it over any other OS. And I've used DOS, all versions of Windows (not much with 7), OS/2, Linux, pre-OS X Mac OS, and OS X. Even Jim or Jarred said OS X is the better OS (before this thread got cleaned up), and Red is collaborating on a Windows computer. What does that tell you?

Regardless, this RED-ified HP is an awesome Windows computer. If I was happy with Windows I'd go for it. Heck, I might even get it just to pull the Rocket out and then sell the computer and keep the Rocket. It's that good of a deal as far as I can tell. Curious to see what everyone ends up being able to buy them for.
 
Nikhil Kamkolkar said:
Everyone who thinks Macbook Pro will be/is sufficient are assuming that content creators' demands will remain static. They won't. Sure there'll be a overlap period, which is where we are now. But soon as the consumer tools get strong enough to handle editing 5K natively, the pros could have moved on to something that requires 10x the horsepower.

In short, if Apple does not stay committed to the pros, they will give up the market. Which may be OK with them. They know that no matter how and where the content is CREATED, their devices will be the ones used to CONSUME it. And that could be just fine from their pov.
Click to expand...

I don't think that will be an issue. I have a 2011 Macbook Pro right now and it edits 5K in Premiere Pro CS6 without a Rocket at 1/4. I have a Retina MBP on the way and 5K will cut even better on that. Next year we'll have Dragon 6K, but Apple will likely have new MBP's again, faster and more powerful, and I would expect would be able to edit 6K at at least 1/8 and hopefully 1/4. Sure it's not 1/2 or full, but why do you need that on a notebook screen. So as the cameras get better, so does the computers. And Apple has stated publicly they're committed to pros. When the new Mac Pro comes out next year (though I'm sure it will be drastically different than current Mac Pros) then you'll have an even more powerful computer for editing 5K and 6K Red footage.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
Hehe... I would take you up on that, but I don't currently have an online blog. I get tons of requests to do one and I probably should. It would actually save me time and allow me to collect thoughts into one place. Let me ponder this one for a bit.
Click to expand...
Can't wait for this to happen... :)
 
A Jeff blog is a good idea. There's quite a few good blogs focused on the creative aspects of filmmaking and on gear reviews but having something like this to keep us up to date on the moving target of the computer processing landscape would be most excellent.
 
Michael Lindsay said:
Jeff is one of the few people I always read.. (and I normaly try and ingore people that like computers ;-) If we could have something like the Red team tag system that was customisable ?? That way we could flag those we consider always worth reading and be able to bounce threw these long long thread quickly???
Click to expand...

Yeah, I was thinking recently it would be awesome to "subscribe" to specific forum members. I would love this feature.
 
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