Helium 8K Sensor Crop

[Marcel Schnellinger]

Hi,

I don't really understand what "Full Frame" here means:

[TABLE="class: specs, width: 100%"]
[TR="bgcolor: #AAAAAA"]
[TD]REDCODE RAW
ACQUISITION FORMATS 2[/TD]
[TD="class: right, bgcolor: #CCCCCC"]8K Full Frame (8192 × 4320), 2:1, 2.4:1, 16:9, 3:2, 6:5, 4:1, 8:1, and Ana 2x, 1.3x, 1.25x
7K Full Frame (7168 × 3780), 2:1, 2.4:1, 16:9, 6:5, 4:1, 8:1, and Ana 2x, 1.3x
6K Full Frame (6144 × 3240), 2:1, 2.4:1, 16:9, 3:2, 4:3, 6:5, 4:1, 8:1, and Ana 2x, 1.3x, 1.25x
5K Full Frame (5120 × 2700), 2:1, 2.4:1, 16:9, 3:2, 4:3, 5:4, 6:5, 4:1, 8:1, and Ana 2x, 1.3x
4K Full Frame (4096 × 2160), 2:1, 2.4:1, 16:9, 3:2, 4:3, 5:4, 6:5, 4:1, 8:1, and Ana 2x, 1.3x
3K Full Frame (3072 × 1620), 2:1, 2.4:1, 16:9, 3:2, 4:3, 5:4, 6:5, 4:1, 8:1, and Ana 2x, 1.3x
2K Full Frame (2048 × 1080), 2:1, 2.4:1, 16:9, 3:2, 4:3, 5:4, 6:5, 4:1, 8:1, and Ana 2x, 1.3x[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

It will record a smaller portion from the sensor, so i will have a different Focal length or will it internally use the same framing and just lower the pixel amount?

Thanks for the help!

Marcel

 

[Andy Roberts]

It means this....

The full 8K frame is 8192 × 4320
The full 7K frame is 7168 × 3780
etc...
It is the base of the other aspect ratios that follow on that line.

RAW footage is cropped (smaller portion of the sensor) and not scaled.

Here is a tool to become familiar with.

http://phfx.com/tools/formatCompare

This particular page is showing you Helium 8K vs Helium 6K. You can mix and match as much as you want.

 

[A. Clint Litton]

In this case, FF is maintaining the native aspect ratio of the sensor at a given resolution (~1.89:1), as opposed to HD (1.78:1), 2:1, or 2.40:1. The only way to achieve the full sensor FOV into a smaller resolution without cropping the sensor is via ProRes or DNxHD. It may be very useful in certain circumstances, but does have some drawbacks in post flexibility.

To get a sense of how various aspect ratios at different resolutions compare to one another, or to other formats (i.e. FF35, S35, m4/3, etc), Phil Holland's "Format Compare" is super handy. (Thanks again, Phil!)

Hope this helps, Marcel...

 

[Marcel Schnellinger]

Hey,

Yeah that helped a lot. So the drawback of the Helium sensor is that when you for example shot 4K, you will need a very wide lens to achieve a wide angle shot. Also we will see how good the sensor is, when cropped.

Thanks for the answers!!!

Marcel

 

[Andy Roberts]

If you're willing to forfeit RAW, you can shoot with the full 8K sensor and get scaled ProRes at 4K.

And even at 4K 120FPS, the sensor does an AMAZING job. Here's proof, at least in my perception.

 

[Kemalettin Sert]

If you're willing to forfeit RAW, you can shoot with the full 8K sensor and get scaled ProRes at 4K.

And even at 4K 120FPS, the sensor does an AMAZING job. Here's proof, at least in my perception.

Shoot only prores and look out for false color, gio scope tools etc. Those are affecting prores colorspace.Its a bug on weapon.does it occur also on epic-w?

 

[Marcel Schnellinger]

hmm, seems like red again developed an overpowered cam, 4k off helium is like the 2k off mx, kinda unusable. why not 4k prores 4444 option with 75fps from the sensor? 8k produces unmanageable data. little pissed, finally a good image in lowlight. will get Alexa mini. just the much better "camera" overall. not always about the numbers.

 

[Phil Holland]

hmm, seems like red again developed an overpowered cam, 4k off helium is like the 2k off mx, kinda unusable. why not 4k prores 4444 option with 75fps from the sensor? 8k produces unmanageable data. little pissed, finally a good image in lowlight. will get Alexa mini. just the much better "camera" overall. not always about the numbers.

No offense, but....

For instance if you film 7K FF REDCODE RAW at 8:1 compression ratio (which is the same general format size as Super 35mm) and just using a 24fps project as an example:

8K FF REDCODE RAW @ 10:1 = 457.40 GB per hour
7K FF REDCODE RAW @ 8:1 = 437.75 GB per hour
DCI 4K ProRes 4444 12-bit = 492.86 GB per hour

Do note what you refer to as "unmanageable data" is a smaller data footprint in the higher quality compressed RAW codec than the Intermediate Codec you seem to want.

 

[David Mullen ASC]

hmm, seems like red again developed an overpowered cam, 4k off helium is like the 2k off mx, kinda unusable. why not 4k prores 4444 option with 75fps from the sensor? 8k produces unmanageable data. little pissed, finally a good image in lowlight. will get Alexa mini. just the much better "camera" overall. not always about the numbers.

Conversion from raw to RGB in order to record ProRes doesn't not necessarily reduce your data load as Phil demonstrates -- converting a raw file to color (RGB) automatically triples the data from raw, which then has to be compressed and/or scaled down to something manageable.

 

[Sergio Perez]

I really am yet to understand these "unmanageable data" claims and complains. For the past 2 years we have been shooting a racing event for 4 days non stop with 4 high quality video edits to be delivered at the 4th day, completely shot on Red at 6K, 5K, 4K and 3K resolutions for High speed. All edited in 4 Mac workstations (trashcans) . Completely manageable. This is as extreme of a scenario as it gets.

 

[Marcel Schnellinger]

@Phil: David is right. Convert 8k raw to color and have 1.5 TB an hour, then rescale/compress to what ever you need or your machine can handle. the only real life benefit raw gives me is to change/correct WB in post. Never used anything else. 8k might be nice in 5-10 years, helium seems to an awesome sensor, but why not helium 5k with focus on great color, noise levels and fps. And then choose if raw or color codec/compression. Would buy now. Tell Jarred.