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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Have you noticed...

T

Thomas Koba

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Have you guys noticed the same as me?

I haven't shot film before, only video on different formats. And that was all ok and all. I was very confident on DV and lately on the Canon 5D. But after getting the Scarlet it's as if...hmm....how do I explain. It's as if I´m starting from scratch again. I see so many errors, that I didn't notice before. Clothes are wrong, makeup is wrong, color-palette is wrong, grading is harder to nail down, lenses are unsharp at the edges, things don't "time" well...etc. It's as if I see all the little mistakes, that I didn't noticed before. I feel like starting from scratch again.

It feels kinda frustrating to see all these errors suddenly, but I think it's good. It's progress. It's learning.

...I hope.
 
I come from a S35 background and have extensively used the Canon 5D Mark II during the last few years and feel about 100% opposite as you Thomas.

New tools sometimes come with new learning curves. I don't know if I've had an easier time grading material in my life. Because you have more resolution and color depth much more is "visible" and shooting technique becomes much more important.
 
Yes but DSLRS were "soft" so it was easy to hide lack of technique. I'm a director/producer and I've run n' gun shot a lot of own stuff material when I needed too..and quite frankly just having some great glass wide open let me get away with murder.

I'm not so sure that will still be the case anymore...you'll notice makeup and small details now MORE...so technique and in-camera "painting" I think will become more important.

Then again, I see your point. You can also just GRADE everything and make it look like whatever you want.

We have our first big Scarlet shoot next weekend, so I'll know more exactly how this transition feels then...
 
With the larger the sensor the more "on it" you must be....this was a VERY EVIDENT when coming from Natural History shooting background and shooting up to say F900 for me and the smal sensor allowed us as nat. hist. shooter to get away with a LOT...not so with RED....in fact it's not always the right tool for doc work. But when you do setup properly and get it....it is worth it. but there's no room for error with such a large sensor...--focus that is. As others stated, the depth at which you can color correct and tweak raw settings is unsurpassable by no other format i've shot or seen.
 
I am there with Phil. Having been in the film world, I finally have a camera I don't have to struggle with to achieve what I was used to see in film, and dare I say, surpass it ;)
 
Daniel Stilling said:
I am there with Phil. Having been in the film world, I finally have a camera I don't have to struggle with to achieve what I was used to see in film, and dare I say, surpass it ;)
Click to expand...

I am not from film as such ('cept for stills).
Epic is inda the first cam that just works...
 
I've owned and operated a Canon GL1 from 2001-2006, then an hvx200 in 2006, hvx with Letus in 2008, Canon HV30 in 2009, Canon T2i in 2010, Canon 60D in 2011, and 5D Mark III in 2012.

And now I have a Scarlet.

And I have to say... filmmaking, color correcting, post, everything, has never been easier and more rewarding than with the Scarlet. Because I don't have to fight with it. it gives me the results I knew a digital video camera was always capable of.

But back to Thomas: just keep at it, doing tests, shooting, color correcting etc. I think you'll get over the hump in no time.
 
Have to say I'm with Phil on this. I do come from a film background - but stills - EPR 64 absolutely rocked on 'beauty' both editorially and advertising. Assisted many photographers shooting it including Annie Leibovitz.

And then shot it heavily myself. For me, from Harpers (never Vogue!) to P&G (Pantene, Head & Shoulders etc) EPR was 'God Like'. It was the emulsion that just oused quality.

I started to direct when it was fashionable to take 'beauty' photographers and make them directors with no knowledge of film making whatsoever. Shot commercials for L'Oreal, Pantene, Head & Shoulders, Revlon and became thoroughly disillusioned by the whole affair.
Gave up the directing and went back to stills (long story).

Then I started to switch to digital. Had it's hiccups, will not deny that. Fell in love with Phase (still the best by a country mile) and through the 5D started to fall in love with motion again.

Shot in January 12 with Epic in Cape town and after some testing comparisons with stills (shot at the same time) from my Canon was blown away.

I would regard myself as 'pedantic' about skin tone and have heard every naysayer on 'RED's skin tone is not as good as Alexa but I feel the skin tone from Epic is as good as it gets, IF, you know the software AND you have tested and know what you are doing.

If Scarlet/Epic is failing you I'm sorry the question should be 'I'm failing it and maybe I need to test some more'.

This is a very lo res screenshot - it rocks, at full res it really rocks!

(un- retouched still, one light pass - pulled straight from the rushes)
 

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I, too, am on the side of the fence that feels Scarlet / Epic has made things MUCH better.

I recently gave a 45 minute presentation on the current state of digital cameras, kind of breaking things down into a few tiers by price and saying what was best at those tiers. When I was done I re-asserted my belief that DSLRs are an amazingly wonderful boon for beginning filmmakers. My reasoning was price, sure, but also that if you can get your shots to look great on a DSLR, you can make it look great on anything.

Since you have to be so much more careful with lights (dynamic range) and textures (compression) and patterns (moire) and movement (lack of weight and Jello) and color (lack of color space)... suddenly being free of those constraints is amazing.

Scarlet / Epic is the Harrison Bergeron of filmmaking. (anyone get that reference? lol)
 
I will add that today I was with Jeff Brown (avid contributor here) at his company premises Brownian Motion at Pinewood and met the cameraman who is about to shoot next week the title sequence for Skyfall. If you had any questions (or a dubious nature of skin tone - the girls are nude) of RED footage I am absolutely sure that 007 would not be using it let alone PJ or RS!

Just as an addendum, of all the places to rent Epic in the UK (and I have spoken to the 'key one's this week' ) one of them has not replied at all and the other got back to me two days later, Jeff was back to me within two hours and the service I got today from him and his team was nothing less than superb.

I look forward to our shoot together next week

if you want to rent RED in the UK - Brownian Motion (and no I have nothing to do with his company)
 
Don't get me wrong, I totally agree that Scarlet has made high-end prduction so much easier and accessible. I´m just saying that me, personally, have just discovered a bigger step up in my skills developement.
 
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Phil Holland said:
I come from a S35 background and have extensively used the Canon 5D Mark II during the last few years and feel about 100% opposite as you Thomas.

New tools sometimes come with new learning curves. I don't know if I've had an easier time grading material in my life. Because you have more resolution and color depth much more is "visible" and shooting technique becomes much more important.
Click to expand...

........... +1
 
Shooting RED is the same as shooting film.... Same but different...

You still need to expose correctly...
You still have to grade it... (to get the best from it)
you still have to take the images from the NEG (R3D) convert them to a user friendly format to edit and online with.
You still light the same way. (but possibly less powerful lights)
You still post the same way. (sort of... you still need to use your R3D files like film and extract the best looking image you can from them.. then that image converted to a DPX, PRORES, TIFF's, etc etc etc... and you finish the project the same way as you would film)
Make up artists are the same.
Grip suport is the same...

The only difference is there is no actual film... and the cameras have more buttons...

If you have never shot and posted film, and only come from a 8 bit video world were you just ingest into an edit suite and finished it off like so... it's still not that dissimilar..

The only difference really is there is much more in the highlights and the blacks and the image is sharper...

It's all very simple if you keep things simple...

One thing I can tell you though... Is there is far bigger profit margins shooting digital RED over Film.... :) thats the bit I'm liking.
 
Serious lack of resolution in DSLR or even conventional HD cameras could "cover" some mistakes :) With RED you can see and avoid them.

After having expirience shooting with RED any comparison to DSLR footage feels like bad joke. It is incomparable.
 
Johnny Friday said:
With the larger the sensor the more "on it" you must be....this was a VERY EVIDENT when coming from Natural History shooting background and shooting up to say F900 for me and the smal sensor allowed us as nat. hist. shooter to get away with a LOT...not so with RED....in fact it's not always the right tool for doc work. But when you do setup properly and get it....it is worth it. but there's no room for error with such a large sensor...--focus that is. As others stated, the depth at which you can color correct and tweak raw settings is unsurpassable by no other format i've shot or seen.
Click to expand...

This is not really right.. since you could go down to 2k if you desperately need a smaller sensor. Still the image would hold up better than the older video cams. Still you have raw from red. So sensor vice and picture vice you would be better of with a red than a F900 or such.

But to me having such large sensor is so much nicer than not having that option. If the shot is critical then hope for more light and stop down.

If you got the light it will look super on a big sensor even if stopped down all the way on your lens. My wife shot this with no focus meter or such as her first Red shoot, she is not a DOP, she is not even around cameras that much, did her art film in art school 10 year ago... and I can tell you I think it would not look better with any other camera. Red is simple Expose, aim focus and push the red button... Then get supriced how good it looks :)

https://vimeo.com/42594298
 
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