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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

For The Indies / Our Scarlet customers...

shashbugu said:
let me clarify, Low budget to me means above $250k and below 5 million
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You mean mid budget in Sweden? Hahahaha :laugh:
Low budget for me is working for free, hoping to get something for the showreel.
 
Christoffer Glans said:
You mean mid budget in Sweden? Hahahaha :laugh:
Low budget for me is working for free, hoping to get something for the showreel.
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The technical term would be No Budget (NB). There are varying degrees of ways to give away your time. May as well give a professional handle :)
 
Jarred,
one thing that still isn't clear to me is this : is Epic Dragon EOL, or will there be an upgrade path in a couple of years or so when a new sensor comes out (not the 8K upgrade which is more a Dragon-8K-instead-of-6K upgrade than a new sensor) ? Or will all the people who haven't upgraded to Weapon be left out ?

Also, about opening the module development to third parties, isn't that something you could also do for Epic and Scarlet ?

Thanks :)
 
Nils Ruinet said:
Jarred,
one thing that still isn't clear to me is this : is Epic Dragon EOL, or will there be an upgrade path in a couple of years or so when a new sensor comes out (not the 8K upgrade which is more a Dragon-8K-instead-of-6K upgrade than a new sensor) ? Or will all the people who haven't upgraded to Weapon be left out ?

Also, about opening the module development to third parties, isn't that something you could also do for Epic and Scarlet ?

Thanks :)
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I understand that a definitive answer from Jarred is preferred but I can tell you he has stated that Dragon was the passport to future upgrades; Weapon being just one of those. He has also stated that there are other upgrades coming for Epic and Scarlet Dragon. I hope that helps some.

That seemed to be half the point of this thread. Again, further clarification from the source is always good.
 
I suppose another way to look at this would be - RED started out taking care of indie filmmakers really. Awesome cameras for awesome prices. Now, they want to take care of their high-end customers. Those with tons of budget and crew and needs that arise out of such a model.

Hopefully, they'll bring those advancements down to the indie filmmakers, because really, the production model itself is shifting to becoming democratized across the entire workflow, not just camera. Hence, the need for all the "fixes" in Weapon, and the "new modules" interface of weapon to make their way into an affordable system for indies. Maybe not right now, but very, very soon.

To say that only the high-end Weapon line will have the ability to not require 'blackshading' is a total cop out, in my opinion. The most affordable of the RED camera line up should have it. These are minimal requirements, these days. Not luxuries, and maybe that's where the back-and-forth lies. Since I see this as a given, and maybe there are many who don't.
 
Nikhil Kamkolkar said:
I suppose another way to look at this would be - RED started out taking care of indie filmmakers really. Awesome cameras for awesome prices. Now, they want to take care of their high-end customers. Those with tons of budget and crew and needs that arise out of such a model. ...
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Which is great business sense. Would be rather foolish to not serve these needs with the latest innovations and pushing the frontiers. As technology competition is speeding up, it is also very important to recover R&D quicker than the competition can copy cat the latest ... which we have seen a bit of ... LOL

... have to say it, i´m as indie as it gets and i feel very much taken care of by RED ... ;-)


+ by the way, being an "underfunded indie" is completely up to us and not REDs fault ... it´s a choice to make it on our own terms ... which is great!
guess, given the tech at hand and coming with a bit of a vision, everyone is free to align his mind to the markets and make happen whatever is needed.


cheers,
Detlev
 
Jarred Land said:
I feel like alot of our Scarlet customers and the indie shooters out there are having some separation anxiety looking at the price point of Weapon and a few people are concerned we have forgotten about the "little guys".

Dont worry we are not abandoning the "lower" end and just focusing on the super high end.

Truth be told the Scarlet Dragon is anything but low end... It is actually a better camera than almost every high end camera out there if you actually compare the specs. And there is definitely a future for Scarlet Dragon... you just don't know about it yet and it is not anywhere near.

But Weapon isn't in Scarlet territory.. it never was intended to be a direct jump for most Scarlet owners. Remember, Weapon sits above Epic. And for the fortunate Scarlet owners that can do the jump.... we give you the option.

The requests for a Weapon to to have the price of a Scarlet is an unreasonable expectation. For Weapon we had to invent alot of new technology to make it possible. Remember we design our own ASICS, Sensors, Mechanicals etc. And that is not cheap. It is easy to just take machine vision sensors and off the shelf FPGAs and make an inexpensive camera. But they usually fall short. That of course getting better as the years go on... But so are we.

I believe it is some existing Epic customers that are in a position of contemplation. Part of that is from the confusion of the credits and options and some don't realize that we are giving you more than $10k off in credits or accessories, plus the value of your trade-in. You are actually paying somewhere around $12k all things considered to do the upgrade to MG Weapon depending on what you are going from. And that is a killer deal.

The Weapon fills a hole for the best of the best. It really is incredible. Even if you take away the 8K sensor, the improvements we have made to the form factor, the internal processing, ProRes, etc.. is a huge achievement. Our engineers solved alot of "impossibles" along the way. the 3rd party module support is finally going to make use of the modular vision. The Weapon has done extremely well this week with the customers it was made for. Wouldn't change anything about it.

And yes Mark that was a great analogy. We probably do spoil our customers. But our customers also spoil us...
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True that! Even the Red One MX is better than many high other current end cameras in certain ways, let alone the Scarlet.
 
Akin A said:
Michael, I'm interested in knowing more about your experience using Epic Dragon vs Scarlet Dragon. I'm leaning towards upgrading to Epic Dragon. Do you actually use the half Ks that often? I've seen the compression wedge thread, but do you see a noticeable jump in real world image quality of 6K 24fps vs 5K 24fps 7:1 downscaled to 4K? I'm sure the frame rate improvements are obvious, based on my Scarlet Dragon HFR tests. Any other thoughts?
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The field of view is wider on Epic, it's not about the resolution really - but it makes a huge visual difference.
 
Akin A said:
I'm interested in knowing more about your experience using Epic Dragon vs Scarlet Dragon. I'm leaning towards upgrading to Epic Dragon. Do you actually use the half Ks that often?
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I find 5.5K to be an interesting sweet spot for fov, lens coverage, IQ falloff, and is hair more then double the image data of 4K.
If moving the camera is involved, the full 6K stabilized down to a 5.5K crop provides the same quality 4K down-sample.
 
Christoffer Glans said:
The truth is that the camera line up has always been lower than most other companies competing in the same class.
I don't have the money for an Alexa or a Sony F65, but I had the money for an Epic MX which I now upgraded to an Epic Dragon.
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I read his post several times, and I'm pretty sure Christoffer meant lower price - not lower camera spec or class. He sort of qualified that in the second sentence by saying he didn't have the money for Alexa, but did have the money for EPIC.
 
Jarred,

can you now say anything more about Scarlet's future? Just give us the name of it. Just the name.
Or just say if the next Scarlet gets the new form factor with Dragon sensor just like Weapon. Or if it comes directly with the new sensor and body. :-)

Thanks

Karel
 
Since you have a new red raven with 4 120FPS is there any plans to improve the Slowmo feature set on the red scarlet MX? or are we out in the cold on this one?
 
I don't wanna add to the noise, but the one thing I feel is missing is the 4.5K option for Scarlet Dragon. I think it was left out of the MX because it didn't add any useful recording option, but with scarlet Dragon this would be truly helpful.
 
Glad someone dug up and resurrected this thread. I had remembered Jarred commenting about the future of Scarlet Dragon but didn't recall how specific and extensive his comments were. This is what makes the investment in RED all that much more worthwhile. Raven is just another step forward.
 
there are news coming about Scarlet Dragon´s future path, just keep working, save, and wait
 
Well I have really taken advantage of the scarlet upgrades, I had bought two mx scarlets and have upgraded them both to epic dragons(huge thank you to RED). But due to timing and all, I just couldn't swing both of the recently converted scarlets(to epic dragons), to weapons. I'm hopping this indie upgrade approach for dragon is more then just for the scarlet dragon, but also those Indie's that couldn't make the shift from epic dragon to weapon. I had recently moved both my scarlets to epic dragons before weapon's announcement, but could only swing moving one of them to 8k weapon . So my B camera (epic dragon) camera's will match up well with my 8k weapon r3d, but I like to have all my accessories and network approach all the same. Id love my B camera (epic dragon) to be some type of weapon, it doesn't need huge fps or anything, just needs to shoot 6k FF at red code 5:1 24fps and have the same accessories and network management as my NAB ordered 8k.
 
PatrickFaith said:
Well I have really taken advantage of the scarlet upgrades, I had bought two mx scarlets and have upgraded them both to epic dragons(huge thank you to RED). But due to timing and all, I just couldn't swing both of the recently converted scarlets(to epic dragons), to weapons. I'm hopping this indie upgrade approach for dragon is more then just for the scarlet dragon, but also those Indie's that couldn't make the shift from epic dragon to weapon. I had recently moved both my scarlets to epic dragons before weapon's announcement, but could only swing moving one of them to 8k weapon . So my B camera (epic dragon) camera's will match up well with my 8k weapon r3d, but I like to have all my accessories and network approach all the same. Id love my B camera (epic dragon) to be some type of weapon, it doesn't need huge fps or anything, just needs to shoot 6k FF at red code 5:1 24fps and have the same accessories and network management as my NAB ordered 8k.
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I think that the new scarlet will be limited to 5k like the raven is limited to 4k. With no limitation on redcode and framerate. No 6K. And I hope it will be. That would be sad if scarlet dragon owners had to pay an insane amount to upgrade. The dragon upgrade was already almost the price of the camera itself. It was the same as the epic upgrade price which is a way more expensive camera. So I do hope they will make a new scarlet for scarlet owners and not for epic owners disappointed in the weapon price. Having a 5k only weaponized scarlet will please many epic owners anyway.
 
You guys think they will upgrade the scarlet dragon or the scarlet mx. I think scarlet mx is the 4K4ALL now lol so many on sale
 
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