For The Indies / Our Scarlet customers...

[Jarred Land]

I feel like alot of our Scarlet customers and the indie shooters out there are having some separation anxiety looking at the price point of Weapon and a few people are concerned we have forgotten about the "little guys".

Dont worry we are not abandoning the "lower" end and just focusing on the super high end.

Truth be told the Scarlet Dragon is anything but low end... It is actually a better camera than almost every high end camera out there if you actually compare the specs. And there is definitely a future for Scarlet Dragon... you just don't know about it yet and it is not anywhere near.

But Weapon isn't in Scarlet territory.. it never was intended to be a direct jump for most Scarlet owners. Remember, Weapon sits above Epic. And for the fortunate Scarlet owners that can do the jump.... we give you the option.

The requests for a Weapon to to have the price of a Scarlet is an unreasonable expectation. For Weapon we had to invent alot of new technology to make it possible. Remember we design our own ASICS, Sensors, Mechanicals etc. And that is not cheap. It is easy to just take machine vision sensors and off the shelf FPGAs and make an inexpensive camera. But they usually fall short. That of course getting better as the years go on... But so are we.

I believe it is some existing Epic customers that are in a position of contemplation. Part of that is from the confusion of the credits and options and some don't realize that we are giving you more than $10k off in credits or accessories, plus the value of your trade-in. You are actually paying somewhere around $12k all things considered to do the upgrade to MG Weapon depending on what you are going from. And that is a killer deal.

The Weapon fills a hole for the best of the best. It really is incredible. Even if you take away the 8K sensor, the improvements we have made to the form factor, the internal processing, ProRes, etc.. is a huge achievement. Our engineers solved alot of "impossibles" along the way. the 3rd party module support is finally going to make use of the modular vision. The Weapon has done extremely well this week with the customers it was made for. Wouldn't change anything about it.

And yes Mark that was a great analogy. We probably do spoil our customers. But our customers also spoil us...

 

[Scott Crawley]

And order was once again restored to the land...

Thank you Jarred.

 

[Nikhil Kamkolkar]

Dont worry we are not abandoning the "lower" end and just focusing on the super high end. Truth be told the Scarlet Dragon is actually a better camera than almost all high end cameras if you actually compare the specs. And there is definitely a future for Scarlet Dragon... you just don't know about it yet and it is not anywhere near. But Weapon isn't in Scarlet territory.. it never was intended to be a direct jump for most Scarlet owners. Remember, Weapon sits above Epic. And for the fortunate Scarlet owners that can do the jump.... we give you the option.

The requests for a Weapon to to have the price of a Scarlet is an unreasonable expectation. For Weapon we had to invent alot of new technology to make it possible. Remember we design our own ASICS, Sensors, Mechanicals etc. And that is not cheap. It is easy to just take machine vision sensors and off the shelf FPGAs and make an inexpensive camera. But they usually fall short. That of course getting better as the years go on... But so are we.

I believe It is some exiting Epic customers that are in a position of contemplation. Part of that is from the confusion of the credits and options and some don't realize that we are giving you more than $10k off in credits or accessories, plus the value of your trade-in. You are actually paying somewhere around $12k all things considered to do the upgrade to MG Weapon depending on what you are going from. And that is a killer deal.

The Weapon fills a hole for the best of the best. It really is incredible. Even if you take away the 8K sensor, the improvements we have made to the form factor, the internal processing, ProRes, etc.. is a huge achievement. Our engineers solved alot of "impossibles" along the way. the 3rd party module support is finally going to make use of the modular vision. The Weapon has done extremely well this week with the customers it was made for. Wouldn't change anything about it.

And yes Mark that was a great analogy. We probably do spoil our customers. But our customers also spoil us...

Glad you are not trying to change your number, Jarred… so… how about dinner saturday night?

Seriously, I love all the education I get about the inner workings of what goes into one of these marvels from posts such as the above. I shot my first (and so far, only) feature on 35mm with an ARRI BL4… a beast! And every time I hold my DRAGON and fire it up, I just gaze at it in shock and wonder. So frickin' amazing!

 

[Martin Stevens]

With posts like that from Jarred, you can put your trust in RED.

I am, and have since 2007.

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

I believe It is some exiting Epic customers that are in a position of contemplation. Part of that is from the confusion of the credits and options and some don't realize that we are giving you more than $10k off in credits or accessories, plus the value of your trade-in. You are actually paying somewhere around $12k all things considered to do the upgrade to MG Weapon depending on what you are going from. And that is a killer deal.

If it was actually $12k in cash I would be less contemplative. But there would still be some pretty big unknowns. I would lose my sidehandle which never leaves my camera and instead have the sidekick which I get a lot of people want and a lot of people hate the Sidehandle, but I've always been a fan. And if I move to XL without a side handle I'll only have 90 minutes of power without a REDVolt to failover to or the option of shooting for 30 minutes in an extremely lightweight handheld configuration. I love the ports all on the right with the Base Expander... but I'm already getting really excited about tethering which I would lose. I love the toolless attachment of the 7" but when I put it on a Noga it now requires a large bulk adapter. The image quality will be nearly identical. It looks like compression can be reduced by 10%. So ultimately I would say Epic vs Weapon for my configuration is kind of 1 step forward one step back on form factor when I look at it really closely. To me it feels more like a crossgrade than an upgrade. It would be like moving from FCP-7 to FCP-X when FCP-X was launched. But it's reassuring to hear that the DSMC Epic/Scarlet customers aren't going to be treated like FCP-7 customers. I look forward to hearing about what those options will be going forward for Epic Dragon owners.

 

[Brian Boyer]

If it was actually $12k in cash I would be less contemplative. But there would still be some pretty big unknowns. I would lose my sidehandle which never leaves my camera and instead have the sidekick which I get a lot of people want and a lot of people hate the Sidehandle, but I've always been a fan. And if I move to XL without a side handle I'll only have 90 minutes of power without a REDVolt to failover to or the option of shooting for 30 minutes in an extremely lightweight handheld configuration. I love the ports all on the right with the Base Expander... but I'm already getting really excited about tethering which I would lose. I love the toolless attachment of the 7" but when I put it on a Noga it now requires a large bulk adapter. The image quality will be nearly identical. It looks like compression can be reduced by 10%. So ultimately I would say Epic vs Weapon for my configuration is kind of 1 step forward one step back on form factor when I look at it really closely. To me it feels more like a crossgrade than an upgrade. It would be like moving from FCP-7 to FCP-X when FCP-X was launched. But it's reassuring to hear that the DSMC Epic/Scarlet customers aren't going to be treated like FCP-7 customers. I look forward to hearing about what those options will be going forward for Epic Dragon owners.

From what I understand, Element Technica is making a side handle. It won't house the Redvolt like before but the XL module you get for free with the Weapon upgrade can use them, a la the Peter Jackson Weapon photo.

 

[BrendanLeahy]

From what I understand, Element Technica is making a side handle. It won't house the Redvolt like before but the XL module you get for free with the Weapon upgrade can use them, a la the Peter Jackson Weapon photo.

This is OK, but if you really want to strip down RED for a handheld shoot alone, it would still be great to see some sort of Side Handle 2.0. Keep everything as small and as light as possible.

 

[BrendanLeahy]

Dont worry we are not abandoning the "lower" end and just focusing on the super high end. Truth be told the Scarlet Dragon is actually a better camera than almost all high end cameras if you actually compare the specs. And there is definitely a future for Scarlet Dragon... you just don't know about it yet and it is not anywhere near. But Weapon isn't in Scarlet territory.. it never was intended to be a direct jump for most Scarlet owners. Remember, Weapon sits above Epic. And for the fortunate Scarlet owners that can do the jump.... we give you the option.

The requests for a Weapon to to have the price of a Scarlet is an unreasonable expectation. For Weapon we had to invent alot of new technology to make it possible. Remember we design our own ASICS, Sensors, Mechanicals etc. And that is not cheap. It is easy to just take machine vision sensors and off the shelf FPGAs and make an inexpensive camera. But they usually fall short. That of course getting better as the years go on... But so are we.

I believe it is some existing Epic customers that are in a position of contemplation. Part of that is from the confusion of the credits and options and some don't realize that we are giving you more than $10k off in credits or accessories, plus the value of your trade-in. You are actually paying somewhere around $12k all things considered to do the upgrade to MG Weapon depending on what you are going from. And that is a killer deal.

The Weapon fills a hole for the best of the best. It really is incredible. Even if you take away the 8K sensor, the improvements we have made to the form factor, the internal processing, ProRes, etc.. is a huge achievement. Our engineers solved alot of "impossibles" along the way. the 3rd party module support is finally going to make use of the modular vision. The Weapon has done extremely well this week with the customers it was made for. Wouldn't change anything about it.

And yes Mark that was a great analogy. We probably do spoil our customers. But our customers also spoil us...

Great to hear. This should be on page 1, or made into a separate post altogether (since this and posts like it are a bit scattered everywhere right now). I think it'll calm the storm a bit.

 

[Jarred Land]

actually probably a good idea Brendan.

 

[BrendanLeahy]

actually probably a good idea Brendan.

Thanks! Glad to see everything clarified and know RED is still thinking about all of its users :smile:

 

[Brian Boyer]

Keep everything as small and as light as possible.

Hence, the weight savings of Mg and CF on the smaller Weapon body versus AL Epic/Scarlet with the original side handle? The weights could be very similar. Just a thought.

 

[Scott Crawley]

Whoa... deja vu

sorry, couldn't resist. ;-)

 

[BrendanLeahy]

Hence, the weight savings of Mg and CF on the smaller Weapon body versus AL Epic/Scarlet with the original side handle? The weights could be very similar. Just a thought.

This is true.

I forgot to mention before: the other benefit of the DSMC side handle (aside from keeping the length of the body small/light and just expanding width) is being able to blindly/quickly go through menu settings. I film a lot of concerts, and it's a lot quicker than trying to keep steady and navigate the touchscreen!

 

[Jeremiah Patton]

"And there is definitely a future for Scarlet Dragon... you just don't know about it yet and it is not anywhere near. "

That's all I needed to hear, thank you Jarred!

Sincerely the little[r] guy!

 

[Brian Boyer]

This is true.

I forgot to mention before: the other benefit of the DSMC side handle (aside from keeping the length of the body small/light and just expanding width) is being able to blindly/quickly go through menu settings. I film a lot of concerts, and it's a lot quicker than trying to keep steady and navigate the touchscreen!

I have no idea but I'm willing to bet that functionality will remain in the new version.

 

[Chase M. Wrenn]

Just got my Scarlet Dragon in today....SUPER EXCITED, even more so after reading this

 

[Milan S.]

If it was actually $12k in cash I would be less contemplative.

This is the thing. It's really closer to $20 that we have to come up to move from Epic to Weapon regardless of the generous accessory offer.

And while the accessory offer is great, most of us already have close to $10k in accessories and modules that will not work with Weapon.
I don't expectt these will fetch very much on used market..... I understand the accessory offer is designed to soften the blow which it does greatly but it's not like getting free stuff because we are bricking a bunch of modules we already have.

Secondly, I love my Epic Dragon and would be happy for many years with it.... The problem is the future upgrade path - That's what everybody is worried about. While perfectly capable at the moment, it doesn't make financial sense NOT to upgrade to Weapon, unless you are planning on spending $50k+ on a new camera in a couple of years.

Lastly, like Jarred pointed out, Weapon is actually cheaper than Epic when it rolled out so it's painful to see the upgrade cost rise to almost twice as much as it did for Epic. Not to mention that the spec leap when we upgraded to Epic was an amazing value.
Maybe that's impossible to replicate with Weapon but it's kind of what people are comparing it too.

Cheers!

 

[Mark Crabtree]

"And there is definitely a future for Scarlet Dragon... you just don't know about it yet and it is not anywhere near. "

So, does this mean that in the future there will be a next gen sensor (Beyond Dragon) upgrade for Scarlet and Epic bodies,
or does it mean that the next gen sensor will only work in Weapon but Scarlet and Dragon will still be supported with firmware updates?

 

[Mathias Erichsen]

This is great news for all Scarlet Dragon owners!

 

[Nick Morrison]

And there is definitely a future for Scarlet Dragon... you just don't know about it yet and it is not anywhere near.

This is GREAT to hear. Thanks Jarred. RED + INDIE are an unbeatable team. Can't wait to see what's in store for Scarlet Dragon!