Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Fixed EF Mount

P

Paul Jameson

New member
Joined
Sep 25, 2015
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
Points
0
I was super psyched about this camera and thinking of placing an order but I have to say that fixed EF mount is a bit of a deal breaker for me. I'm too invested in other mounts and also not a fan of Canon lenses. Are we likely to see other mounts?

Thanks,
 
Well, the Canon EOS mount has a shorter flange focal distance than other mounts, so you can use adapters for Nikon, Leica, maybe PL and probably some I haven't thought of. So of all the single mounts to use on the Raven, that's the best one. Also it's super strong with it's locking design.
 
This is a slight deal breaker for us as well. Don't get me wrong, we could utilize the Canon mount but having it fixed kills a lot of options, as there are a few "other" cameras on the market now with more versatile mounts. It's basically a C300 killer, which was kinda dead already. I can't help but wonder though, with the cost and development of making the camera a fixed mount, wouldn't it have been cheaper just to use the existing swap-able mount system? That would really set this camera apart. Now I likely wouldn't be saying this if we didn't have a set of PL primes on hand.
 
My thoughts exactly. I don't understand why there isnt a mft or an e mount on this thing. Would have ordered in a heartbeat if it had either of the two. Crossing my fingers for them to release raven in a different mount down the line.
 
David Dominguez said:
My thoughts exactly. I don't understand why there isnt a mft or an e mount on this thing. Would have ordered in a heartbeat if it had either of the two. Crossing my fingers for them to release raven in a different mount down the line.
Click to expand...

I think the sensor sits as deep as it does on epic so then it need to be ef 2/3 is shorter flange distance.
 
That's exactly my point, and a lot of us are thinking the same..

Raven has 2 major problems :

- The 1.87 killer crop factor

- The Ef fixed mount

But hopefully these 2 problems can be resolved by one single and simple thing : A M43 mount, we would be able to mount almost everything on it, and hugely important, we could use a Speedbooster and make this crazy crop factor more "acceptable" ..

I know Jarred is smart, this thing is for sure being discussed in the Red garage right now..
 
You're hedging, fellas. What does "bit of a deal breaker" or "slight deal breaker" mean? Either it's a deal breaker or not. Who's kidding who here?

Canon and RED go way back. It's the one that they can and do provide the most support for. It is very reasonable that this is the fixed mount for Raven. I have used my Nikon mount Zeiss ZFs on a Scarlet before I bought one with a $69 adapter. It's been pointed out already, there are cinema lenses with Canon mounts.

Please, enough already with the crop factor! It's a 4K Dragon sensor! It's just slightly smaller than S35.
 
I get that among existing Red users Canon glass and EF mount is probably a majority. And I don't have an issue with the principle of a fixed EF mount camera. I don't really second guess the decision made to go that way because it makes the most sense probably.

For me personally considering that the 4k sensor being used is a bit of a crop on S35 and MFT lenses would cover, I just regret not being able to go wider than whats on offer in EF. Oly 7-14mm f2.8 and 8mm f1.8 would be so sweet for what I want to do. Also for proper cine mechanics the Veydra primes are about 1/5th the cost of most options designed for larger formats. But everything is a compromise right.

Given Raven isn't shipping until Feb and NAB is only a few months after I'm going to naively hope that there may be future versions in different mounts. Summer 2016 is when I expect to pick up my next camera so I'll just wait and see what happens.
 
Hugh Scully said:
Please, enough already with the crop factor! It's a 4K Dragon sensor! It's just slightly smaller than S35.
Click to expand...
I agree with you. Crop Factor is a little helper term to get your fov's right when you switch(!) from one format to other. Otherwise it should get banned from everyone's head and should never be used as technical term.

But S35 isn't right. ;) Academy 35 is the right film-stock to compare RAVEN with, which is a good piece smaller than S35.

EF makes a lot of sense on many levels. RED decided to launch RAVEN with a fixed mount and only one version - believe it or not, RAVEN customers profit from it, it allows to keep the price down and gives you access to a great selection of lenses without the NEED of adapters. You know RAVEN is going to be a real production camera, something you just want to work with. It had to be EF, it's only logical, especially when you look at the target audience and today's lens-market.

Soooooo many big stuff has been shot in 4k or even smaller "crops" on Dragon and MX, i don't know where to start.

Would i like to play with a focal reducer from time to time? Sure... But seriously, it's not that essential and i absolutely would not want to rely on a little adapter with mediocore optics that fuzzle around with the performance of great lenses.

Do you have an idea how great for example a RAVEN together with a SIGMA 18-35/1.8 will be, compared to the age of film or even a few years ago, when people started with digital? It's unbelievable cheap and could do many big budget hollywood productions, probably with a even better picture quality (thanks to Dragon pixels and 4k).
 
Just throwing this out there. If Red have a relationship with Canon and are set up to use Canon electronics. Why not use the relatively new EF-M mount? Far more adaptable and uses the same electronics. Which is where the big cost would be in moving to M43 would be. - Canon even make an EF-M adaptor to standard EF. - Feels like its going to be the Sony A-Mount to E-Mount transition all over again...

I'm not complaining I have already pre-ordered but it would be a great solution to many complaints.
 
have any of you used fool control? what might one expect with canon glass and that application i wonder in terms of pulling performance vs pulling on the barrel of still glass? Jarred seemed to indicate he thinks dumb lenses aren't the future, that electronic ones are so if this thing is a really good EF mount camera with damn good controls that make cheap lenses work almost as good as higher end PL lenses mechanically i could see that being a huge incentive for a fixed mount... i figure i can always cancel my deposit and put it towards CF weapon anyway so I'm not too concerned about field of view/crop factor or EF fixed...but super interested in if Fool Control will perform well enough on Raven that it legitimately competes with say an Alexa Studio in terms of wireless performance or not...
 
Last edited:
Don't forget... i think the popularity of cameras like the 5D have put A LOT of canon glass out there in the hands of the people who will MOST likely be buying a camera like the RAVEN... makes perfect sense to me.. there are plenty of MFT DSLRs out there.. and if your looking for PL + RED, pick up an epic and shoot it
 
Fergus Cahill said:
Just throwing this out there. If Red have a relationship with Canon and are set up to use Canon electronics. Why not use the relatively new EF-M mount? Far more adaptable and uses the same electronics. Which is where the big cost would be in moving to M43 would be. - Canon even make an EF-M adaptor to standard EF. - Feels like its going to be the Sony A-Mount to E-Mount transition all over again...

I'm not complaining I have already pre-ordered but it would be a great solution to many complaints.
Click to expand...

Because the flange length is too short.
 
Matthew Quinn said:
Don't forget... i think the popularity of cameras like the 5D have put A LOT of canon glass out there in the hands of the people who will MOST likely be buying a camera like the RAVEN... makes perfect sense to me.. there are plenty of MFT DSLRs out there.. and if your looking for PL + RED, pick up an epic and shoot it
Click to expand...

THIS is a major important point! Canon more or less stumbled upon the "motion" market with the 5D and everything like it that came after. Nikon was slow to follow up and it took quite awhile (in tech years) for companies like, Sony, Panasonic. etc. to bring out their competitive DSLR-style cameras. And then BMD, Sony and AJA (etc) started doing the "cinema-style" thing, too. Canon sold a lot of glass based on that - many of their lenses being put on competitors' cameras. It became something of a "standard" and even RED sold a boatload of Canon mounted Scarlets and Epics.

So why the surprise that, if RED were going to introduce a fixed mount, that it is Canon? And, of course, that doesn't mean it will end there, either.
 
Last edited:
I have more than 10 000$ glass in Nikon (both Manual AIS and G) that I have invested because of the Red Nikon Mount. I guess some have glass in other mount. Electronic mounts. Dumb mounts are dumb nowadays in still lenses world.

Because what's the point of using adapters if you loose the ability to use what make DSMC² bodies so damn interesting.
Wifi focus and iris via Foolcontrol or device like RTmotion is building.

MFT mount seems weird as no MFT lenses are inside the firmware yet. So for a start, it would have been useless.
But I don't understand the absence of Nikon mount. Most Nikon lenses works today in red firmwares.

Like Canon, they offer the same ability to focus and iris wirelessly with actually better looking lenses.

When I shoot on a 5D, I never use Canon lenses (I use my Nikons with an adapter). Too many people recognize the Canon look. I avoid Canon lenses so I can be different than the crowd.
Some say that the 5D people will buy this cam. That's not entirely true. I had a Red, since the M. an Epic, an Epic Dragon, a Scarlet. I needed a way to lighten my game and was waiting for Red move.
To be able to mount Raven on a gimbal, with a monitor, and a lens only. Brain powered with gimbal through the Jetpack.

So this is what I don't understand : Software is here in Scarlet, Epic, Weapon firmware. Mounts tech are here too. It just needs to be adapted to the Raven body. Why choose only Canon ?
I'm ready to purchase a Raven with fixed Nikon mount. Even if it's released a bit later. I won't do it with Canon fixed, too expensive and to similar in look to others.
 
Bérenger Brillante said:
I'm ready to purchase a Raven with fixed Nikon mount. Even if it's released a bit later.
Click to expand...

That's good to let RED know in terms of your preference and what's holding you back from getting on board.

I think RED went with Canon EF because it is actually one of the broadest selection of lenses for the mount natively out there as well as really easy to adapt a ton of glass to. That equals a really large market. I don't remember the exact sales number, but there's a very large difference between how much Canon EF glass is out there versus exclusive Nikon mount. It's a huge margin though.
 
Completly aware of the Canon wide use, I guess 20 against 1.

My point was the tech is here at Red, in both hardware and software. How much more can it cost to have a fixed Nikon ? This is "only" a manufacture cost difference.
 
i also don't understand why they didn't keep with the non fixed mount system AL mounts are cheap for presumers already? which makes me think Jarreds specific comments about electric lenses being useful is why they made this move and I'm hoping for Alexa Studio like pulling on Raven ideally but no idea how well EF works in the real world even if u set fool control to be very insensitive would it suffer from the traditional mechanical limitations of EF i wonder?
 
I'm pretty sure it had a lot to do with price, it costs more to make pieces that come apart than it does to cut and paste big pieces together, canon was the natural mount between what i mentioned before, and what others have said in regards to Fool Control being a MAJOR tool for red operators..
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top