First Look - Schneider Xenon FF-Prime Lenses

[Jiri Vrozina]

Zeiss Otus is a winner in a long run ;-)

 

[Tim Morten]

Outs is a great lens. However it is ungeared, and currently offers no other focal lengths.

 

[Billy Jim]

18mm at NAB 2014

 

[Phil Holland]

18mm at NAB 2014

The 18mm got a lot of attention because of exactly what it is. 18mm at FF coverage at T2.4, which hasn't really been done before. I think Nikon was the last company to make a FF35 18mm at f/2.8. I was told by the Xenon FF-Prime Product Manager that the engineers were "hell bent" on getting the 18mm done. A 14 or 15mm would have been an easier design in reality. That also might even happen further down the line.

The actual trade offs on the 18mm not being faster more or less come down to elements, optics size, and manufacturing cost. It's important to note all of these Xenons share the same gearing distances, so you don't have to move your follow focus on the rods when you disengage/reengage your gears. They may not have the 95mm thread on the front of the 18mm when all is said and done. Right now it's a manufacturing thread and there is a bit of concern about screw on filters touching the front element. Schneider might make a inexpensive clamp on filter holder for this series in the future, been talking to them about that for a year actually. We'll know more on that very soon.

The 25mm and 100mm looked nice. All of these lenses look consistent across the range, which is great for narrative and commercial applications.

The 135mm will likely be a bit longer than the other lenses in the set, only by a few mm. But, it will share the gearing.

At the end of the day you are looking at an affordable 18, 25, 35, 50, 75, 100, and 135mm lens set with interchangeable mounts. T2.1 except the 18mm at T2.4. There might be an ultra wide and telephoto added into the mix. They are looking to expand on the line a bit and will likely by next NAB have whatever direction they decide to go from here on display. Macro lenses have been requested by a few owners and that would make sense. Might be interesting if they go for a 60mm and 180mm macro actually. There's also been talk about intermediate lengths being made much further down the line, like a 28mm for instance. Considering that Schneider isn't as big as some of the other lens manufacturers and this is the first set of glass out of this particular factory, 7 lenses in a fairly short time is impressive.

They aren't the Leica Summicron-C Primes, but they are indeed a good value for what the Xenon FF-Primes can do.


The Cine-Xenar III 14mm T2.2 looks extremely cool. I really, really need to test and maybe get that too. I need to check coverage though. There's hopefully a telecentric 135mm coming down the pipe to create an 8 lens Cine-Xenar set.

 

[Tom Greenberg]

I ordered the 5x set in PL mount (25, 35, 50, 75, 100) at NAB. I'll be getting the 35, 50, 75 immediately and the 25 & 100 as soon as they are available. I will order the 18 as well, as soon as price and approx. delivery have been announced. And at some point, I'll probably purchase the EF mounts too.

After comparing the Xenon FF with both CP.2 and CN-E, I decided this was the prime set for me. YMMV...

 

[Tim Morten]

Loving my Xenon so far... can't wait for the rest to arrive!

 

[Nick Fury]

I ordered the 5x set in PL mount (25, 35, 50, 75, 100) at NAB. I'll be getting the 35, 50, 75 immediately and the 25 & 100 as soon as they are available. I will order the 18 as well, as soon as price and approx. delivery have been announced. And at some point, I'll probably purchase the EF mounts too.

After comparing the Xenon FF with both CP.2 and CN-E, I decided this was the prime set for me. YMMV...

Hi Tom,

Also waiting for the preorderd remaining lenses (25 & 100)-looks like July/Aug. for those...

I have had uniform accolades from all, who have used my existing three Xenons. I'm sure you will have success with them.

Thank you very much

Fury

 

[Ketch Rossi]

I'll be starting a new tread soon, but till then wanted to share with guys my last couple of quick and dirty shorts I did before coming back to LA.

This have been uploaded on my Youtube channel in UHD4k in case you have a 4k TV/Monitor

We unfortunately had several issues with Dragon and DaVinci, so don't be judging the color too much also this was a one man band kind of thing, and a two man band for the Aosta piece, but loved the Xenon, and now in LA to shoot something that will surely she them off in a better way as well as the Dragon new OLPF...


PS: Shot with Dragon original OLPF.

And the Making Of:

 

[Kirk.Attard]

Those are some very nice clips Ketch - Particularly like the snow shots and how well Dragon handles the highlights. Very well done.

 

[Danny Condruti]

Loved it.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Those are some very nice clips Ketch - Particularly like the snow shots and how well Dragon handles the highlights. Very well done.

Loved it.

Glad you like it guys, yet this images don't really do the given justice to neither the Dragon nor the Schneider Xenon, as we had much troubles with it in Post... Good news is, that all of those issues are now resolved in the new Adobe PP, FCPX and DaVinci 11... So the next round of Films will not suffer from it.

 

[Nick Fury]

Hi Ketch,

Got a kick out of Strauss and Venezia juxtaposed, at initialization. I recall doing a Viennese Waltz and a whole bunch of other stuff, at Carnivale there some years ago.

Grazie

Fury

 

[Tim Morten]

Nice work! Some of those single light Area48 setups looked a bit harsh, but I know you were constrained in how much you could carry. Looked like a lot of fun to shoot!

 

[Nick Fury]

The Snapbag and diffuser are nearly weightless and compressible, so that had to have been an artistic choice...

Thank you very much

Fury

 

[Jiri Vrozina]

The 18mm got a lot of attention because of exactly what it is. 18mm at FF coverage at T2.4, which hasn't really been done before. I think Nikon was the last company to make a FF35 18mm at f/2.8. I was told by the Xenon FF-Prime Product Manager that the engineers were "hell bent" on getting the 18mm done. A 14 or 15mm would have been an easier design in reality. That also might even happen further down the line.

The actual trade offs on the 18mm not being faster more or less come down to elements, optics size, and manufacturing cost. It's important to note all of these Xenons share the same gearing distances, so you don't have to move your follow focus on the rods when you disengage/reengage your gears. They may not have the 95mm thread on the front of the 18mm when all is said and done. Right now it's a manufacturing thread and there is a bit of concern about screw on filters touching the front element. Schneider might make a inexpensive clamp on filter holder for this series in the future, been talking to them about that for a year actually. We'll know more on that very soon.

The 25mm and 100mm looked nice. All of these lenses look consistent across the range, which is great for narrative and commercial applications.

The 135mm will likely be a bit longer than the other lenses in the set, only by a few mm. But, it will share the gearing.

At the end of the day you are looking at an affordable 18, 25, 35, 50, 75, 100, and 135mm lens set with interchangeable mounts. T2.1 except the 18mm at T2.4. There might be an ultra wide and telephoto added into the mix. They are looking to expand on the line a bit and will likely by next NAB have whatever direction they decide to go from here on display. Macro lenses have been requested by a few owners and that would make sense. Might be interesting if they go for a 60mm and 180mm macro actually. There's also been talk about intermediate lengths being made much further down the line, like a 28mm for instance. Considering that Schneider isn't as big as some of the other lens manufacturers and this is the first set of glass out of this particular factory, 7 lenses in a fairly short time is impressive.

They aren't the Leica Summicron-C Primes, but they are indeed a good value for what the Xenon FF-Primes can do.


The Cine-Xenar III 14mm T2.2 looks extremely cool. I really, really need to test and maybe get that too. I need to check coverage though. There's hopefully a telecentric 135mm coming down the pipe to create an 8 lens Cine-Xenar set.

As good as both Schneiders will be, Zeiss CP.2 15mm is simply amazing. It is cheaper too. There is a talk of new Zeiss 18mm too.
Would be nice to have Zeiss 18mm at t2.1 ;-).

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Hi Ketch,

Got a kick out of Strauss and Venezia juxtaposed, at initialization. I recall doing a Viennese Waltz and a whole bunch of other stuff, at Carnivale there some years ago.

Grazie

Fury

Ha ha thanks Fury, it was a great fun shooting in Venice!! And my next piece there hopefully will be the motion Picture...

Nice work! Some of those single light Area48 setups looked a bit harsh, but I know you were constrained in how much you could carry. Looked like a lot of fun to shoot!

Yeah Tim, as Fury mentioned, I wanted unfiltered light coming strait from the Remote Phosphor panel, and while I did place the Snap Bag soft box on one for the interior on the least sequences in the restaurant, I wanted to see how Dragon reacted, since on my first experience at the Red Studios with the Area 48, the OLPF exhibited strong Magenta circles, and this time I actually was able to control them extremely well, which was just a test, since I still sent the Dragon M8 in for the OLPF replacement... But was nice to show that I could control it once I knew that issue.


Either way the end results, even without the Snapbag/Softbox on it were really nice, just wish didn't had as many problems in post with coloring in DaVinci and we would have had much nicer images all around.

But again, I can't believe how much I love the Xenon, and the bokeh been almost perfectly round, I tough it would make me not like it instead I do like it a lot.

 

[Matt Ryan]

After seeing more and more footage these lenses have too much CA for me. Personally I wouldn't shoot high contrast material ever on this set. Even in the mountain shots from Ketch theres the purple CA on the mountain peaks and on buildings in the Venezia short. I know others will defend the set but to me this is too bad for modern lenses. I believe even Rokinons have less CA than this. I understand these are budget lenses but I expected less CA from the set. The other characteristics are fine but that CA kills it for me.

(right click and open in a new tab for full size)

 

[Tim Morten]

Fair to say the CA is visible; harder to say how well anything else at this price would perform in the same circumstances. I'm with Phil and Ketch in liking the look of these lenses.

 

[Phil Holland]

The first rule about Purple Fringing Club is we don't talk about Purple Fringing Club.

Oh man.

To be much more specific what we are seeing here is a Axial Chromatic Aberration. Pretty much occurring where overexposure and/or extreme contrast variation exists in a scene. Which is why some shots don't exhibit this behavior. It also has a bit to do with how the light is hitting the photo sites on the sensor itself from what I understand which is why higher end glass exhibits this behavior less for the most part. Especially those with aspherical elements and high quality coatings, which is why Zeiss.... Leica.... you know...... But the moolah is more-ah for that.


A few ways to tackle this commonly are:

- Stopping down approximately 2-3 stops. (High end glass often about 1.3 stops)
- Use of a strong UV cut filter.
- Use of a lower power ND filter.
- Use of a low contrast filter.
- Fix it in post (I just had to go there! - though not truly ideal for many situations)


Been utilizing a couple of these methods with Super Speeds. Works for certain uncoated lenses that "go nuts" too.

 

[Kirk.Attard]

To be honest I noticed the colour cast. As phil said I notice more of a slight colour cast more than anything. Is it something that has got to do with Dragon?

What I loved is the near absolute absence of breathing. I also think that these are the best goto first step cinema lenses. These or CP.2's . Now that I have an idea of how much the Gl leica rehoused set will be I think I'll pass.