First Look - Schneider Xenon FF-Prime Lenses

[Jiri Vrozina]

I tend to agree. All of the lenses exhibit CA and this sort of reveals the different ways each brand looks. Focus pulls reveal more. Not exactly a fair rub here on the Zeiss as that 50mm isn't the strongest in that CP.2 line-up. However, that particular inconsistency is one of my criticisms with that set anyways. Plus they have a far better lens in the Otus 55mm these days. They just need to make a set of those.

Similar complaints on the Canon CN-E Primes, some of which get solved soon-ish, but still same crazy.

Again, this isn't me bashing any of these manufacturers. I own and use glass from all of them. It's more or less my personal criticism and desire for a consistent look. The bigger reality is the CP.2 and CN-E lenses were designed years apart and slammed into cine-housings with new coatings. They aren't totally a matched set, but the coatings help a ton. Are they good for the price? Hell yes they are. Same goes for the Xenons in terms of value.

Xenons do not have much CA because the are not as sharp as the rest of the lenses.
I think new Zeiss Otus is the way to go for me.....

 

[Tim Morten]

Xenons do not have much CA because the are not as sharp as the rest of the lenses.
I think new Zeiss Otus is the way to go for me.....

Not as much sharpness, or not as much contrast?

Otus sounds great, but it's a one lens set for now, and I haven't heard about a PL mount or lens gearing (but perhaps I missed that)?

I'm joining Ketch and Phil and hopping on the Xenon train. I'll admit Phil scared me with the earlier CA discussion, but it sounds like CA is in CP.2 territory now that Phil and others have had more time with them. Wish I could afford the Xenars (or Summicron-C for that matter) but these seem like a great mix of optical quality, build quality, 6k Dragon coverage, and price. Should definitely be a step up from my ZF's at any rate!

I'm expecting mine next week... now if I would just get my Dragon upgrade email!

 

[scott devitte]

"Should definitely be a step up from my ZF's at any rate!"

What in this thread leads you to think that these Xenons are a "step up" from ZF? Maybe that they are better adapted for cine ease of use , but, there is nothing that indicates that they are better visually.

In fact what I see is a lot of bravado on the part of early adopters that has not been verified. A lot of "I believe" going on here.

 

[Jiri Vrozina]

I can see Schneider Xenon series to be nicely built but optically i am yet to see anything special. If anything, i see faster other brands for the same $$.
i see other 2 brands with many lenses in set TODAY. And with 1 stop or more to play with, it is really no brainer.
Having Canon cn-e 24mm t1.5 for about the same $$. All this talk other brands are not Cinema glass but who really cares if results are there. OK with that sharpness and speed and resolution is CA. But remember, they are (cano/zeiss) cheap lenses.
Regarding Zeiss not being the same T - stop...well TODAY i can buy 25,35,50 macro,85,100 macro and 135mm ALL at uniform T2.1.
If one needs, 15mm at T2.9 can be added.

Canon cn-e is 24,35,50 and 85 about T1.5. ..and one can get 14 and 135mm today.

Schneider Cine-Xenon really must be super special when it comes to breathing and Look. I really do not know, so far i see on this Cinema forum only STILLS.

 

[Tim Morten]

"Should definitely be a step up from my ZF's at any rate!"

What in this thread leads you to think that these Xenons are a "step up" from ZF? Maybe that they are better adapted for cine ease of use , but, there is nothing that indicates that they are better visually.

In fact what I see is a lot of bravado on the part of early adopters that has not been verified. A lot of "I believe" going on here.

Zeiss ZF is fine glass for the price, and sure Zeiss has more focal lengths at the moment, but the tests posted in this forum and personal experience lead me to note: inconsistent quality across the range (compare both versions of the 50mm for an easy example), inconsistent speed, inconsistent weight/size, mechanics that are not on par with cinema glass even when cinevised. I love my ZF's, but they have many caveats. No one here is waxing poetic about the Xenon, simply noting that they offer a compelling mix of optical quality, mechanical quality, and price. I'm still learning, but when Phil and Ketch endorse something, they deserve to be listened to.

PS - If you love ZF glass, pm me; I've got some lenses to sell you.

 

[Rome Will]

Not exempt, but Dragon has the ability to capture higher DR, which means more contrast, and the CA seems to be more prominent in high contrast situations.

Understood. Thanks!

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Guys,

I'll say this one more time in detail...

You must be reasonable and choose a lens accordingly to what you can afford, and then never try to compare IT, to the lenses that cost 4 to 6 times more, it is just not reasonable at all.

I have used and owned some of the cheapest and the most expensive lens in the market, different lenses for different reasons, and one of them always been what you can afford at the time.

I was waiting for my Leica C. Primes set, have been for a while, sold my Master Primes set, and then life goes on and at times can crush you really hard, so it did, I ended up buying the absolute cheapest lens set because I and no funds to allocate to any lenses while waiting for my Leica C. Primes to arrive, so I bough the Rokinon's, and while of course not great at all when compared to high end glass, they were very good overall.

Now in need of a much better glass and with the possibility to spend around 20k for a set of 5 lenses, I decided ultimately on the Schneider Xenon's after testing them and test the Rehoused Canon, and Zeiss offerings, as well as testing some Rehoused Contax Zess and few more, all are great for their price, but the Schneider Xenon, came up first amongst all of them, in their overall qualities, starting with build quality, which in a professional set it means a lot, and not just talking about size and weight that is exactly the same on each lens, but the sway the Iris and Focus gear is hilt and operates under a professional set up, with motors etc.

The image quality is overall the best of the bunch as well, and yes, as has been pointed out they do show CA on Dragon, more then they do so on other cameras, or on the Epic/Scarlet MX, it is a simple fact of mathematics, the more your put in to a bag the heavier that bag becomes, and with CA is the same thing, the more information you give that file that more certain things will show up,and CA is one of those, yet I actually find it pretty easy to deal with, and actually gives it some character as well, of course up to a certain extent.

Ultimately I am very pleased with my purchase decision, and will unlike sale them or replace them till I get my Leica C.Primes, and same I can say for my Spanish Producer Fabius, which also got a set.

 

[Nathaniel Opgenorth]

Well, I don't see it that way...

So, either my Retina screen is playing tricks or it surely looks to me that the Xenon are actually the sharpest wide open, when compared to all others...

I don't think your Retina screen is playing tricks, at least mine isn't! I agree with you though, the Xenon's may not actually be the sharpest wide open but they have far less CA than even the Zeiss, the Canon L looks like its almost aliasing :O still its pretty impressive that the L-series can pump out a great image and build quality and usability with focus pullers aside I don't think its insane to say that Canon EF glass can still make a great looking image with its own unique looks. Man those Xenon's look great though! If you ask me it looks the best on those charts and the actual images are beautiful! I feel like these lenses will be around for a long time and sought out after!

In your other post you mentioned you sold your Master Primes, for the sheer fact that they are a pretty expensive investment I could see myself only using them during the honey moon period but that aside how do the Xenon's compare to the Zeiss Master Primes? Nothing scientific but curious.

Side note: Man if I was in the rental business I might move heaven and earth for these Xenon's...like I said this glass looks beautiful, even the design is amazing! Its like when you see a beautiful women in a crowd and you instantly fall in love...is that weird to compare it to? haha

 

[Ketch Rossi]

It could be that I need new prescription on my glasses...

But yes I am most certainly standing by my given opinion on this lenses.

BTW... With removed lens support piece, the lenses weight in at exactly 1.125kg. or 2.480lb

So for the sake of rounding things up this lenses are 2.5LB each... And this is one of the reasons I also like them a lot...

 

[Rome Will]

Great breakdown again Ketch! And they do feel light...looks like you weighed the EF version...same as my set but will look to move to PL later down the line...looking to get the changable mount kits once they finally come out...and still waiting on the case...NEED MY CASE SCHNEIDER!! =)

Was there a free case for a set purchase of the CN-E's or CP.2's?...nothing to do with optical comparison, but it sure is nice to get a case since I pre-ordered...

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Great breakdown again Ketch! And they do feel light...looks like you weighed the EF version...same as my set but will look to move to PL later down the line...looking to get the changable mount kits once they finally come out...and still waiting on the case...NEED MY CASE SCHNEIDER!! =)

Was there a free case for a set purchase of the CN-E's or CP.2's?...nothing to do with optical comparison, but it sure is nice to get a case since I pre-ordered...

Always happy to share Rome...


Actually this is the PL mount, both our sets are PL, as I'l only be using the PL Motion Mount.

 

[Rome Will]

Oh ok, got you Ketch...couldn't tell from the pic...I need EF for now...more versatility for me at this stage.

 

[Fabius Rubio]

AMEN KETCH!

 

[Fabius Rubio]

Let's try them!!!

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Let's try them!!!

Count on it...

 

[Nathaniel Opgenorth]

Well, I don't see it that way...

So, either my Retina screen is playing tricks or it surely looks to me that the Xenon are actually the sharpest wide open, when compared to all others...

It could be that I need new prescription on my glasses...

But yes I am most certainly standing by my given opinion on this lenses.

BTW... With removed lens support piece, the lenses weight in at exactly 1.125kg. or 2.480lb

So for the sake of rounding things up this lenses are 2.5LB each... And this is one of the reasons I also like them a lot...

Man that thing looks so nice......you know I wouldn't mind if you posted more photos ;D

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Man that thing looks so nice......you know I wouldn't mind if you posted more photos ;D

Here you go Nathaniel...

Nan's re-housed GL off Contax Zeiss Prime, Zeiss CP2 & the Schneider Xenon top and side for over all element view and size comparison.

Only one missing is the Canon re-housed, sold those before I came to Barcelona, and the last Contax 85mm is also for sale, same will be for the CP2, unless Fabius wants to keep it for the Movi.

 

[Nick Morrison]

Here you go Nathaniel...

Nan's re-housed GL off Contax Zeiss Prime, Zeiss CP2 & the Schneider Xenon top and side for over all element view and size comparison.

Only one missing is the Canon re-housed, sold those before I came to Barcelona, and the last Contax 85mm is also for sale, same will be for the CP2, unless Fabius wants to keep it for the Movi.

Great pic Ketch.

One thing to keep in mind is the GL is a rehouse of the 85mm 2.8, which is a tiny, tiny lens...so the rehousing is pretty small. If it were a rehouse of the 85 1.4 I'm guessing the whole design would be slightly larger. Just so people get an accurate sense of scale. I don't think 85's at normally so small!

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Thanks Nick, and yes indeed size of rehousing depends on the speed of the glass no doubt, and that is why I took the pic to show all lenses Speed, even so the Schneider Xenon T2.1 mark got hidden by the highlight...

And an other opportunity to say how gray of a job Nan does with the reusing of the Contax Zeiss, and I might end up getting an other set later on if the need for a small compact and lightweight lens with great power to resolve up to 8k comes along prior getting the Leica C. Primes.

But for now we'll be giving the Schneider Xenon a full spin for there money during this shoots.

 

[Nick Morrison]

Thanks Nick, and yes indeed size of rehousing depends on the speed of the glass no doubt, and that is why I took the pic to show all lenses Speed, even so the Schneider Xenon T2.1 mark got hidden by the highlight...

And an other opportunity to say how gray of a job Nan does with the reusing of the Contax Zeiss, and I might end up getting an other set later on if the need for a small compact and lightweight lens with great power to resolve up to 8k comes along prior getting the Leica C. Primes.

But for now we'll be giving the Schneider Xenon a full spin for there money during this shoots.

Sounds good Ketch!

I love how much Nan adores that 85 2.8. He's always rehousing it (as opposed to the 1.4, which he does rehouse, but seems to advertise less). I can see why, I have two copies of the 2.8 myself (an AE that flares, and an MM that doesn't). But still - his passion for the 2.8 is something I kind of love. He clearly loves that lens.