Final Cut Pro X Released

[Alexander Ibrahim]

x-fcp !
They'd be crazy to lower their prices; after all, those that really need it aren't that many

Actually competitive upgrades are quite normal in the software business.

Avid just completed their competitive upgrade promotion for FCP 6/7 users to buy MC5.

Adobe should really reimplement their program.

Today, an upgrade from Adobe CS3 Master Suite to CS5.5 Master Suite is 1399. An upgrade from Adobe Master Suite CS4 to CS 5.5 Master Suite is $949

Upgrading from Adobe CS3 Master Suite and older/lower to CS5.5 Production Premium is $949. From CS 4 Master Suite to CS 5.5 Production Premium is $649.

If Adobe offered me an update today from FCP 6 to CS 5.5 Production Premium at $949 I'd take it. Maybe even today, now.

Speaking of the various packages ... I find it odd that upgrading from CS5 Master Edition to CS 5.5 Master Edition is $1399, same as an upgrade from MacroMedia 8 Suite. I thought it was a free upgrade for CS5 users. <shrug>

 

[Brandon Kraemer]

24 hours later, I took a step back and this is the saddest part of the whole thing to me:

Shake (nothing real)- DEAD
DVD Studio Pro (Spruce's DVD Maestro)- DEAD
Final Cut Server (Proximity's Artbox)- DEAD
Color (Silicon Imaging's Final Touch)- DEAD
Final Cut Pro (Macromedia's Key Grip)- DEAD
Cinema Tools- DEAD

Man, that's a long road of death and destruction for one company, and what do we have to show for it? These were awesome tools, developed by people who really believed in them (we beta tested Final Touch and used to talk with their guys frequently). What kind of legacy is that? It's a shameless waste of intellectual property and potential.

Agreed.

 

[hans de vries]

Actually competitive upgrades are quite normal in the software business.

Avid just completed their competitive upgrade promotion for FCP 6/7 users to buy MC5.

Adobe should really reimplement their program.

Today, an upgrade from Adobe CS3 Master Suite to CS5.5 Master Suite is 1399. An upgrade from Adobe Master Suite CS4 to CS 5.5 Master Suite is $949

Upgrading from Adobe CS3 Master Suite and older/lower to CS5.5 Production Premium is $949. From CS 4 Master Suite to CS 5.5 Production Premium is $649.

If Adobe offered me an update today from FCP 6 to CS 5.5 Production Premium at $949 I'd take it. Maybe even today, now.

Speaking of the various packages ... I find it odd that upgrading from CS5 Master Edition to CS 5.5 Master Edition is $1399, same as an upgrade from MacroMedia 8 Suite. I thought it was a free upgrade for CS5 users. <shrug>

Well, if it happens, I'm buying; I currently only have ppro cs5, so I can use the rest.

 

[Paul Rosckes]

24 hours later, I took a step back and this is the saddest part of the whole thing to me:

Shake (nothing real)- DEAD
DVD Studio Pro (Spruce's DVD Maestro)- DEAD
Final Cut Server (Proximity's Artbox)- DEAD
Color (Silicon Imaging's Final Touch)- DEAD
Final Cut Pro (Macromedia's Key Grip)- DEAD
Cinema Tools- DEAD

Man, that's a long road of death and destruction for one company, and what do we have to show for it? These were awesome tools, developed by people who really believed in them (we beta tested Final Touch and used to talk with their guys frequently). What kind of legacy is that? It's a shameless waste of intellectual property and potential.

Also:

SoundTrack Pro - DEAD
Motion - ON LIFE SUPPORT
Compressor - ON LIFE SUPPORT

Whenever you take an application away from professionals who use it to make a living, and put it into the hands of the masses, the product development will slow significantly (or stop completely). I saw the same thing happen when Autodesk decided to stop selling Toxic, and instead they just bundled it with Maya. Once the app was taken away from people who make a living compositing, the product development ceased. Users drive product development as much as (if not more) than the software companies.

-Paul

 

[David McGavran]

Actually competitive upgrades are quite normal in the software business.

Avid just completed their competitive upgrade promotion for FCP 6/7 users to buy MC5.

Adobe should really reimplement their program.

Today, an upgrade from Adobe CS3 Master Suite to CS5.5 Master Suite is 1399. An upgrade from Adobe Master Suite CS4 to CS 5.5 Master Suite is $949

Upgrading from Adobe CS3 Master Suite and older/lower to CS5.5 Production Premium is $949. From CS 4 Master Suite to CS 5.5 Production Premium is $649.

If Adobe offered me an update today from FCP 6 to CS 5.5 Production Premium at $949 I'd take it. Maybe even today, now.

Speaking of the various packages ... I find it odd that upgrading from CS5 Master Edition to CS 5.5 Master Edition is $1399, same as an upgrade from MacroMedia 8 Suite. I thought it was a free upgrade for CS5 users. <shrug>

Here is our current special deal... $300 off

http://www.videoguys.com/Blog/E/App...yscom/0x8c2383d12c90c664fc4c82d37d8922fd.aspx

Cheers

Dave

 

[Alexander Ibrahim]

I'm humbled by the brilliance of your logic! Oh, no wait, actually it turns out that I'm not.

iMovie import came before EDL support. This is one of a litany of examples where consumer features came before pro features. How is that an absence of facts?

I addressed this before, but in 60+ pages I'm sure it got lost.

iMovie, Facebook, YouTube, iDevices and AppleTV are all trivial to support.

iMovie's one virtue is simplicity, and because of that importing iMovie projects is trivial. Seriously go try and build the most complicated project you can in iMovie ... it won't be complicated.

Compared to a fairly trivial FCP 6 timeline iMovie import is dead easy to do.

The others require very little to no programming effort. Can you export rendered files? If so, then all you have to do is set up menu items that export with specific settings. Adding support for all those consumer formats, BluRay and DVD export probably took one programmer less than a day. They are intended as a convenience for something that has to get done often.

Do you know how many clients on the low end want iPad dailies, or YouTube approval copies? I render for YouTube almost everyday.

So please ... set this argument aside.

This is NOT to disagree with the idea that at the very least XML import/export should have been present on day one.

On reflection, I don't even care that it isn't in FCP X proper. Apple could have shipped a utility dedicated to converting projects from FCP and XML to and from FCP X projects. They could call it from inside FCP X, just like Compressor. It would have been a hassle ... but it would also have silenced the uproar.

 

[Justen Nguyen]

Apple continually tries to coerce innovation through its own user base and hardware/software. We've seen this many times. Both for better and for worse. Change always has this effect on people. And while you can generally piss off consumers (and get away with it in Apple's case), its not something you generally do with professionals. Let alone something professionals are used to. Everything Apple has done with fcpx sadly doesn't surprise me. Their track record for most of their consumer products has shown how the company acts. As this is quite literally a rebuild of the final cut brand, I view it as a fcp 1.0 rather than 10.

I do like some of what they are trying to do with the magnetic timeline and such. But I also fear that in an effort to simplify things they'll cripple fcpx's chances of being as precise and powerful as it could be. iMovie is indeed easy to use (or at least it was before they overhauled it). But it's also very limiting.

With that said, fcpx will eventually be a professional editor's tool, but in time. Years even. I understand the anger and frustration people are having. I don't feel bad for Apple as the flack they are receiving is a direct result from the aforementioned. But there's no need to fight amongst ourselves, I never found anger and frustration all that productive. As it stands Apple has already been hemorrhaging customers from this demographic. Their statements of assurance are half hearted as actions speak louder than words. They certainly can afford to continue and neglect us in lieu of prosumers. The big question is will they?

I'm hoping this won't be a case of too little too late.

 

[Tim Morten]

I addressed this before, but in 60+ pages I'm sure it got lost.

iMovie, Facebook, YouTube, iDevices and AppleTV are all trivial to support.

And this is based on what factual information?

There is no reason FCPX couldn't have been held until EDL support were ready. Apple themselves made the decision of when to release, and they chose to release without EDL support.

I stand by my position that they put consumers before professionals.

 

[Carey Lee Coffey]

I don't know if this article from the New York Times has been posted here yet or not, but here is the most comprehensive breakdown of all the drawbacks and concerns of the new Final Cut.

 

[Jeff Franklin]

If Avid were on the ball they would be working out the details for full Kona 3 support in their software products. That certainly would seal the deal for a large number of FCP/Kona users who are feeling a little forsaken right now. For AJA one door closes, another opens.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

Here is our current special deal... $300 off

http://www.videoguys.com/Blog/E/App...yscom/0x8c2383d12c90c664fc4c82d37d8922fd.aspx

Cheers

Dave

Between Avid's deal and this one, you could have two very powerful systems, that can actually complement each other well for under $2K. Not too bad at all. And when FCPx gets its legs under it, you can add that to your arsenal for $299. All 3 major NLEs for less than $2500. For anyone who was around editing back in the mid to late nineties, that number is jawdropping.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

If Avid were on the ball they would be working out the details for full Kona 3 support in their software products. That certainly would seal the deal for a large number of FCP/Kona users who are feeling a little forsaken right now. For AJA one door closes, another opens.

Apparently it's in the works according to a poster a few pages back. Would save me a little bit of coin right now as I already have a Kona 3 in place and it would mean I would have compatibility across all 3 NLEs. That would be amazing.

 

[Alexander Ibrahim]

And this is based on what factual information?

There is no reason FCPX couldn't have been held until EDL support were ready. Apple themselves made the decision of when to release, and they chose to release without EDL support.

I stand by my position that they put consumers before professionals.

Sorry Tim ...

The point that was being made was that Apple put a ton of effort into all these consumer features.

I'm saying that the programming effort for these features is trivial.

I say that because I'm an occasional programmer, and I know exactly how easy it is to create such menu options. Minutes really.

Remember these are all presets in Compressor already in FCP 6/7. Absolutely trivial to implement.

I agree about XML being necessary on day one. I don't really care about EDL, except that I know its important to some workflows.

Here is the ASS KICKER though ... ready?

iMovie offers Export to Final Cut XML.

It's true... its in the "Share" menu.

Yep, iMovie has better professional interchange options than Final Cut Pro X.

Ain't that a kick in the teeth? Perhaps more like a curbstomp.

I can't help but think that Apple is working furiously on this. I know they can't be planning to have iMovie excel over Final Cut Pro X in any category ... they really should have held release until at the very least XML was working for import and export.

 

[Brandon J.F.]

Between Avid's deal...

I think AVID's offer expired like a week ago.

 

[Brad Webb]

Apple continually tries to coerce innovation through its own user base and hardware/software. We've seen this many times. Both for better and for worse. Change always has this effect on people. And while you can generally piss off consumers (and get away with it in Apple's case), its not something you generally do with professionals. Let alone something professionals are used to. Everything Apple has done with fcpx sadly doesn't surprise me. Their track record for most of their consumer products has shown how the company acts. As this is quite literally a rebuild of the final cut brand, I view it as a fcp 1.0 rather than 10.

I do like some of what they are trying to do with the magnetic timeline and such. But I also fear that in an effort to simplify things they'll cripple fcpx's chances of being as precise and powerful as it could be. iMovie is indeed easy to use (or at least it was before they overhauled it). But it's also very limiting.

With that said, fcpx will eventually be a professional editor's tool, but in time. Years even. I understand the anger and frustration people are having. I don't feel bad for Apple as the flack they are receiving is a direct result from the aforementioned. But there's no need to fight amongst ourselves, I never found anger and frustration all that productive. As it stands Apple has already been hemorrhaging customers from this demographic. Their statements of assurance are half hearted as actions speak louder than words. They certainly can afford to continue and neglect us in lieu of prosumers. The big question is will they?

I'm hoping this won't be a case of too little too late.

Final Cut Pro as we knew it no longer exists. FCPx is whole new thing. It is brand new editing software. It's as big a pain in the ass move your entire shop from FCP7 to FCPx as it is to move to Avid or Adobe. You're going to have to buy a ton of 3rd party hardware and software to get up and running a professional shop no matter which new editing platform you choose.

In 2 years or so FCP7 will be obsolete. You will have to move on to something else. Now everything is equal. As things stand right now, FCPX isn't even an option due to it's lack of support. Yes Apple tape workflows will be obsolete eventually, but until it's officially dead, I need support for it. Universal was still using 3/4 tape decks up until last year. I'm not joking. Sony still requires DVcam tapes, Paramount still uses Digibetas. Technicolor still uses EDLs, EVERYONE still uses OMFs.

 

[Tim Morten]

I'm saying that the programming effort for these features is trivial.

I say that because I'm an occasional programmer, and I know exactly how easy it is to create such menu options. Minutes really.

Remember these are all presets in Compressor already in FCP 6/7. Absolutely trivial to implement.

My point is that you're speculating... I worked for many years as a programmer, and I hold a computer science degree, but neither of us really know anything about the actual code for this product. Whether it was one hour or one week, the thrust of my concern is that the time went towards a consumer feature rather than those basic pro features that have been discussed. Anyhow, we can agree to disagree... all good.

 

[Bastien Tribalat]

I tested it. Like many of you, I don't like it for à think the same very reasons everyone already mentionned so I won't repeat those.

The one thing I want to say is that... It's SLOW ! Background rendering MY ASS ! Premiere Pro CS5 works better as far as background rendering is concerned. I have an iMac with the specs written in my signature. All 100% 64 Bits. Snow Leopard 10.6.7 as Apple wanted and so on ! And it's slow. I mean... To me one of the key features at NAB was that the software could perform background rendering without slowing anything the editor is willing to do. But that's NOT true on my computer. It's not freezed either, just SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW and fairly crappy to use that way.

 

[Jeff Franklin]

Yes Apple tape workflows will be obsolete eventually, but until it's officially dead, I need support for it. Universal was still using 3/4 tape decks up until last year. I'm not joking. Sony still requires DVcam tapes, Paramount still uses Digibetas. Technicolor still uses EDLs, EVERYONE still uses OMFs.

We master spots to HDCAM SR all the time. The networks demand it. The agencies demand it. I have used AJA VTR Exchange. It's cute, but not exactly convenient or fluid. Gotz to have VTR control in FCP.

 

[Bastien Tribalat]

We master spots to HDCAM SR all the time. The networks demand it. The agencies demand it. I have used AJA VTR Exchange. It's cute, but not exactly convenient or fluid. Gotz to have VTR control in FCP.

And even if it's not tape based, decks control for XDCAM decks (for example) is needed. What are doing Apple ?

 

[Alexander Ibrahim]

My point is that you're speculating... I worked for many years as a programmer, and I hold a computer science degree, but neither of us really know anything about the actual code for this product. Whether it was one hour or one week, the thrust of my concern is that the time went towards a consumer feature rather than those basic pro features that have been discussed. Anyhow, we can agree to disagree... all good.

I don't care if it took ten minutes or four programmer weeks ... the effort was trivial compared to the overall engineering effort.

My point is that including those features is NOT why we didn't get XML import export, or import of older FCP files ... or any of the other features people are complaining about.

So, while I see complaining about the lack of XML support as a valid criticism, its completely pointless to begrudge the stupid export presets and iMovie import.

Come to think of it ... I've had a lot of projects brought to me that were "offlined" in iMovie, so I see iMovie import as a good option to have. I don't use it much if at all on my "real" productions ... but there was a spot of 3-4 months when being able to export to XML from iMovie paid the bills.