Final Cut Pro X Released

[James McLellan]

There definately seems to be some things missing. Is there a media manager in the new FCPX? I haven't heard anything about that and with file sizes nowdays I would think this is a neccessary tool.

 

[rod otaviano]

Found a very interesting video-interview with Philip Hodgetts about the new Final Cut X Pro. I think you guys should watch it. It's a bit long (1h20m) and the video quality is not that great but it's very interesting and he talks about why Apple decided to transform FCP into a totally new product amongst other things (including RED).

http://blip.tv/planet5d/podcast-44-philip-hodgetts-fcpx-5303668

 

[Scott Crawley]

<FlameOn>

Apple didn't cripple everyone's workflow when they moved to Intel. Completely not a useful analogy.

How does the new app cripple your workflow if you can still run your old workflow?

FCP7 is no longer sold by Apple and is not compatible with FCPX.

and the point is...?

Not at all a non-issue: these were modern features that were expected with this release, instead of ripping out features that most people rely on.

I get what you are saying... They are the same things that have already been repeated ad nauseum however... While all of us here might have wanted to see .r3d native editing, it is presumptuous to "expect it" .

This is a minor quibble, but when you do a bottom up re-write you don't remove any features, you fail to add them. Again, many of those are likely coming.

Mob mentality is senselessly destructive and cowardly, and it should be avoided. I don't direct that at you directly Mr. Morten, I offer it as a general observation.

 

[D Fuller]

i'm a red owner and not a pro editor so you can take what i say with a grain of salt but i find all of this change is exciting. i've been an apple consumer since apple 2 (ok, i was 5 years old at the time so it was my dad who started the family trend) and a non-linear using editor since 1995 (media 100 and then fcp). i disagree that apple is choosing to cater to either a pro or consumer market. i think that apple marches to their own beat and if that means creating a new market for non-linear editing, so be it. if that also means losing a chunk of their pro market, so be it. non-linear editing has become the mhz wars of the 90's. for the past 10 years, it's only been about the quest for realtime, codec support and adding incremental features. that stuff is great for daily pro workflow but completely uninspiring on a creative level.

if you're a pro and hate radical change then you should not only dump fcpx, you should've dumped apple years ago because they've been doing it since imac. apple is here to make change as they see fit. yes i want them to deliver all the features i want but that's not going to happen. what i want even more is for them to deliver some features i want and some features i didn't even know i needed.

This is not about "hating radical change." It's about Apple EOL'ing one of the dominant editing products in the world and replacing it with a "professional" product that simply can't be used in many professional editing environments. For the editors I work with, revision is an everyday part of the business. FCPx can't do that to any earlier version's project. That means that for the rest of your relationship with that client, you have to keep a working copy of FCP7 going, even if Apple has stopped supporting a version of the OS that it will work on. "Backward compatibility" is not necessary, AE, for example, has never had that. But the ability to import you own body of work into the next version of the system you rely on to do your work every day is vital for anyone in the editing business. FCP can't do that, and there is no communication from Apple I'm aware of that makes me think it will ever do that.

call me an appoligist. call fcpx a failure. feed the flames. apple loves it because for every 1 pro editor they lose, they're gaining 10 new future editors that don't care about that "pro" title. i believe they're trying to "create" editors that understand how software can be both a tool and an artful experience.

I think this is exactly what Apple has in mind. But it has nothing to do with a "pro" title or "artful" experience. These "future editors" simply don't have anything invested, and they are not working in collaboration with other artists. The editing software is a trivial part of the expense of running an editing business. The collaborative infrastructure that allows sound designers, musicians, colorists, and vfx people to work together is the costly part. FCPx has no accommodation for that, and again, no communication from Apple to suggest it's coming. It is as if Red had produced the Epic with its own lens mount and no way to use any of the glass its users have carefully chosen and spent tens of thousands, or hundreds of thousands of dollars on. It might be a great camera in its own right (in fact, that pretty well describes the Scarlet Fixed) but it would be a betrayal of the customers who have invested in these things with the understanding that they would be compatible with future cameras.

i've downloaded fcpx but for now i'm working in fcp7. too many ongoing projects currently to switch smoothly but does anyone here doubt that 6 months from now fcpx will be the dominant tool of choice for editors?

Well, yes, I doubt it very much. Unless something changes pretty radically, FCPx will see very little use by people who make their living as editors. And I think Apple is OK with that. Because, as you say, there are 10 people with 300 bucks out there for every working editor.

 

[Scott Crawley]

Found a very interesting video-interview with Philip Hodgetts about the new Final Cut X Pro. I think you guys should watch it. It's a bit long (1h20m) and the video quality is not that great but it's very interesting and he talks about why Apple decided to transform FCP into a totally new product amongst other things (including RED).

http://blip.tv/planet5d/podcast-44-philip-hodgetts-fcpx-5303668

Watching it now... Clearly, in the first 30 seconds you can see that this guy knows NOTHING about editing. Clean it up you stumbling mutterer!

 

[Christopher Grant Harvey]

I have nothing new to add to this forum excpet to express my hatred of FCP-X.

The only thing I like about it is 64 bit and background rendering, every other "new feature" does not appeal to me. I do not like any of them. I HATE the new timeline. I hate EVENTS.

 

[Terry VerHaar]

This whole debate has gotten surreal. People act like Apple shot their dog. I am not arguing for everyone to love FCPX. After spending a couple hours with it yesterday and starting to review some training videos at MacProVideo, I feel even more sure that the paradigm to which Apple is shifting is going to be very powerful and save a ton of time for most projects. I am going to invest my time in getting up to speed and, as they add the needed features, I'll be ready to use it full bore.

Yes, it lacks certain features right now, so most people would be crazy to just rush in and switch over night. Personally, I will continue to edit the short that I am in the middle of on FCP7. I have another more casual project that I just might start in on with FCPX. I think it is great that people love Premiere and Avid. And for those that want to switch, go for it. The only thing that bothers me at all about the discussion is the pompous, egotistical and condescending claims that suggest "My workflow is THE workflow and FCPX doesn't support it; therefore anyone who uses it is not a "pro." And, of course, the implication is that FCPX will never have the needed features - which they really don't know and I find to be an absurd assumption.

I shoot a lot more than I edit, so I don't have a heavy delivery schedule to maintain. If I did, I would stay with what I have (FCP7) and transition slowly to FCPX as it evolves. If I were on Premiere or Avid already, I guess I would just keep an eye out. What doesn't make sense to me is the folks who are jumping ship from FCP7 - as if it suddenly stopped working - with all this anger and vitriol towards Apple. But, if that works for them I say go for it.

 

[Cüneyt Kaya]

This whole debate has gotten surreal. People act like Apple shot their dog. I am not arguing for everyone to love FCPX. After spending a couple hours with it yesterday and starting to review some training videos at MacProVideo, I feel even more sure that the paradigm to which Apple is shifting is going to be very powerful and save a ton of time for most projects. I am going to invest my time in getting up to speed and, as they add the needed features, I'll be ready to use it full bore.

Yes, it lacks certain features right now, so most people would be crazy to just rush in and switch over night. Personally, I will continue to edit the short that I am in the middle of on FCP7. I have another more casual project that I just might start in on with FCPX. I think it is great that people love Premiere and Avid. And for those that want to switch, go for it. The only thing that bothers me at all about the discussion is the pompous, egotistical and condescending claims that suggest "My workflow is THE workflow and FCPX doesn't support it; therefore anyone who uses it is not a "pro." And, of course, the implication is that FCPX will never have the needed features - which they really don't know and I find to be an absurd assumption.

I shoot a lot more than I edit, so I don't have a heavy delivery schedule to maintain. If I did, I would stay with what I have (FCP7) and transition slowly to FCPX as it evolves. If I were on Premiere or Avid already, I guess I would just keep an eye out. What doesn't make sense to me is the folks who are jumping ship from FCP7 - as if it suddenly stopped working - with all this anger and vitriol towards Apple. But, if that works for them I say go for it.

hi, maybe people are leaving fcp 7 because its eol and has no future anymore.
compare fcp-x to avid and adobe and you see which app will do the job for the next 12 monhs...along with all the new additions which will come in the next 12 months, avid and adobe will work on implementing those....while fcpx needs the time to get where it was 4 years ago.
hope that helped to explain it a little bit.
sorry for the weirdo english hehe

 

[Anson Fogel]

To sum this all up, my professional life revolves around FCP 7 in part. I was excited about FCPX. It came out. I cannot use it. At all. Period. Its not a debate at the end of the day - most of us CANNOT USE THE SOFTWARE. It does not do the essential things that professionals need it to do. Simple as that. Its not about whether I LIKE the new approach (I do, FWIW). Its not about whether I like or trust Apple. I just cant use it.

So now, there are a pile of us out here who did NOT jump to Premier or AVID. Most of us stuck with FCP. Now, we are faced with pretty funky choices:
a) continue to use FCS 7 - knowing that it will not be updated/is a dead product and bet that Apple will add the critical missing elements to FCPX relatively soon and well
b) learn to use Premier/Adobe - and not just the UI, but engineer entirely new workflows around it, learn import old FCP7 projects, etc
c) learn to use AVID, and all that that entails

In our context - those that make a living at least partly with this stuff - none of these choices are at all straightforward. We work as teams with lots of other folks. Who are ALSO in the same boat.

What do we really need? We BADLY NEED Apple to tell us somehow what their intentions are. Respond with your intentions WRT to timing and goals for adding EDL, OMF, XML, PCI card I/O, media mgt, etc.

My decision, and I bet tens of thousands of others, is based on that one question - will Apple add these specific features to FCPX within say 6 months? If not, the sensible, maybe obvious, thing to do for us is to engage in the massive effort that is switching to Adobe. As a team. Not as a single workstation.

 

[Paul Nordin]

What doesn't make sense to me is the folks who are jumping ship from FCP7 - as if it suddenly stopped working - with all this anger and vitriol towards Apple. But, if that works for them I say go for it.

I've been slinging criticism with the best of them over the last few days. For me two reasons really rankle: first: Apple's lack of communicating any form of a roadmap to implement the features I need that are missing. There hasn't even been more than 3rd party innuendo that Apple is aware there is a problem for us. Second: Apple pulled FCP7 from the shelves. Thus making it impossible to stay with FCP7 for the 6months to 2 years it will take for FCPx to support the functionality they excluded. Both things are slaps in the face, and thus the emotional reaction. But emotional reactions that are based on real issues.

The reason to move on from FCP is that I am constantly running into performance issues and limitations with FCP7. So now that is seems clear FCPx won't provide a road forward out of the muck, then moving to Avid or Adobe seem like best options. I suppose I could wait maybe 6 months max. But by then I'll be dealing with Epic 5k footage and the limitations of FCP7 and missing functions in FCPx will be crippling.

 

[Brandon J.F.]

The only thing that bothers me at all about the discussion is the pompous, egotistical and condescending claims that suggest "My workflow is THE workflow and FCPX doesn't support it; therefore anyone who uses it is not a "pro."

You made several posts saying basically the same thing. I really do not understand why you find the word "professional" so abhorrent. Final Cut Pro X does not meet the workflow standards of most, if not all, professionals. Saying that is not me being condescending, egotistical or pompous. It's just a fact. No one is telling you not to learn it and use it. Have at it.

 

[Tim Morten]

I shoot a lot more than I edit, so I don't have a heavy delivery schedule to maintain. If I did, I would stay with what I have (FCP7) and transition slowly to FCPX as it evolves. If I were on Premiere or Avid already, I guess I would just keep an eye out. What doesn't make sense to me is the folks who are jumping ship from FCP7 - as if it suddenly stopped working - with all this anger and vitriol towards Apple. But, if that works for them I say go for it.

It's about the message that consumers are going to be priority one moving forward. Sure, Apple will respond to the bad reactions and add missing features, but that's not the point: the message they sent is that Final Cut is no longer about professionals first. Other companies (notably Avid and Adobe, but also Autodesk, Assimilate, etc) are logically more likely to continue to address the professional market as their first priority (because they don't sell phones).

FCP7 is a dead-end street, and FCPX is uncooked with no indication of when it WILL be fully cooked. Continuing down the FCP path doesn't seem like a good business decision. What happens in six months if you need to add workstations and FCPX is the only thing available from Apple? What happens in 12 months if Apple is busy adding iPad3 support instead of EDL support? What happens when major new standards (like R3D) emerge and Apple is busy writing Facebook and AppleTV exporters?

This isn't knee-jerk reaction, this is recognition that Apple is more interesting in maximizing revenue than in serving a niche market. No one faults their business logic, but there's no reason to wait around hoping they'll take some time away from their current love (consumers) to give some attention to the ugly girl (professionals). Is our self-respect so low that we don't mind being a low priority? There are some other lookers that live in the same neighborhood (Avid, Adobe, etc)... I say it's time to give them a call and see what they're doing Saturday night.

 

[Anson Fogel]

RedUser is a forum largely frequented by professionals, defined simply as those that make a living doing this stuff. As such the discussion of FCPX's applicability in a professional context is not elitist, or slanted, but simply, obviously relevant. Its not about emotion oar attitude. I cant use FCPX professionally. Neither can most everyone else that works in that context. No anger. Just a change in the landscape that requires a decision based on complex and, currently, opaque factors.

 

[Terry VerHaar]

I've been slinging criticism with the best of them over the last few days. For me two reasons really rankle: first: Apple's lack of communicating any form of a roadmap to implement the features I need that are missing. There hasn't even been more than 3rd party innuendo that Apple is aware there is a problem for us. Second: Apple pulled FCP7 from the shelves. Thus making it impossible to stay with FCP7 for the 6months to 2 years it will take for FCPx to support the functionality they excluded. Both things are slaps in the face, and thus the emotional reaction. But emotional reactions that are based on real issues.

The reason to move on from FCP is that I am constantly running into performance issues and limitations with FCP7. So now that is seems clear FCPx won't provide a road forward out of the muck, then moving to Avid or Adobe seem like best options. I suppose I could wait maybe 6 months max. But by then I'll be dealing with Epic 5k footage and the limitations of FCP7 and missing functions in FCPx will be crippling.

If you believe you will have no performance limitation now or in the near future on the other platforms, then you should switch and get started on the learning curve right away. Presumably you'll be happy until you run into new performance limitations. The cycle is inevitable and each person has to deal with it as best they can. There is no "right" answer.:thumbup1:

 

[Steve Sherrick]

Aside from the vexation this has caused, there is something very interesting about reading comments in this thread, as well as comments across the web - there is a diverse user base out there. It is very easy to spot the people who have never worked in a post production facility. And it's easy to spot people who have never really done the one-man-band thing. There's also a whole lot of people who have done both. The reason it is interesting, is that from Apple's perspective they have to look at who their potential customer base and ask themselves who is their target market? They also have to in a way hedge their bets on which direction they see media production going and how they envision their product fitting in. Based on this initial release (and not speculating about the future releases) it does on the surface appear like they are focusing on the next generation of editors, those who work from their home studios, where they can do it all in one box and then output for the web. Anyone who works on TV shows, high end commercials, features, and music videos know that there's a good chance that the edit they have put together is going to end up in the hands of many other people and they will need a way of getting it to those people as smoothly as possible. And I think this is what separates these two worlds. The question is - can Apple bridge these two worlds? Can they offer a product that meets the needs of the artist working in their home studio and the professional editor who is interfacing with an entire facility and many outside parties? That is the key to whether FCPx is a success at the professional level. If future updates to the app can bridge those two worlds with a new and exciting interface, much better processing and utilization of the hardware, etc then they have truly accomplished something. If they have to abandon one of those worlds, it will be unfortunate because it doesn't seem like there's any reason to do so.

In the meantime, many of us have work to get done. That is what FCP 7, Premiere, and Avid are for right now. Meeting deadlines, earning income, and even making art - right now. I await the roadmap.

 

[Jeff Franklin]

What doesn't make sense to me is the folks who are jumping ship from FCP7 - as if it suddenly stopped working - with all this anger and vitriol towards Apple. But, if that works for them I say go for it.

+1

As I posted on another forum, Steve Jobs did not sneak into anyone's facility and remove their FCP 6 or 7 install. A lot of this crazy anger hate talk is a manifestation of what the Internet has done to civil discourse and rational conversation. It just doesn't exist in the forums.

 

[Paul Nordin]

There is no "right" answer.:thumbup1:

Yep, particularly in light of the lack of clarity around where FCPx is heading. All choices have more risk and cost than desired.

 

[Anson Fogel]

In the meantime, many of us have work to get done. That is what FCP 7, Premiere, and Avid are for right now. Meeting deadlines, earning income, and even making art - right now. I await the roadmap.

Steve, could not have said it better myself.

 

[Christopher Grant Harvey]

This whole debate has gotten surreal. People act like Apple shot their dog. I am not arguing for everyone to love FCPX. After spending a couple hours with it yesterday and starting to review some training videos at MacProVideo, I feel even more sure that the paradigm to which Apple is shifting is going to be very powerful and save a ton of time for most projects. I am going to invest my time in getting up to speed and, as they add the needed features, I'll be ready to use it full bore.

Yes, it lacks certain features right now, so most people would be crazy to just rush in and switch over night. Personally, I will continue to edit the short that I am in the middle of on FCP7. I have another more casual project that I just might start in on with FCPX. I think it is great that people love Premiere and Avid. And for those that want to switch, go for it. The only thing that bothers me at all about the discussion is the pompous, egotistical and condescending claims that suggest "My workflow is THE workflow and FCPX doesn't support it; therefore anyone who uses it is not a "pro." And, of course, the implication is that FCPX will never have the needed features - which they really don't know and I find to be an absurd assumption.

I shoot a lot more than I edit, so I don't have a heavy delivery schedule to maintain. If I did, I would stay with what I have (FCP7) and transition slowly to FCPX as it evolves. If I were on Premiere or Avid already, I guess I would just keep an eye out. What doesn't make sense to me is the folks who are jumping ship from FCP7 - as if it suddenly stopped working - with all this anger and vitriol towards Apple. But, if that works for them I say go for it.

FCP7 is not a solution that has another 10 year shelf to some people... That is the bigger piucture here, Apple should have called this iMovie Pro and all will be good. Calling this release Final Cut Pro is an insult to me and other film editors. FCP-X represents Apple's intentions over the next ten years, if they cannot bother to provide an outline I have the right to be upset and decide to buy into another COMPANY not PRODUCT but a COMPANY that has the porfessional userbase in mind. I want to invest my money with THAT company not a company that gives me a night-vision goggle plugin and deprives me of a toolset that I actually need to get the job done.

Stop defending Apple. They had a great program and did not need to hack it to pieces, they just needed to port it to 64bit and "refresh" it, not give it a V12 super-charged 6.3l engine and NOT give you a gearbox and steering wheel and then insult you and tell you do NOT need those things.

 

[Terry VerHaar]

... the message they sent is that Final Cut is no longer about professionals first.

THIS is the statement that is so sweeping, subjective and pompous that I just can't get past it it. There are thousands of people inside and outside of Apple that I know would argue with you about this. There is no facts to underscore your statement. In fact, Apple has said they DO care about the professional market and that FCP was very important to them. Yopu may think they screwed up, but please don't attribute it to not caring because that is something you DON'T know. It is simply one opinion, stated over and over and louder and louder until those of you who believe it expect others to as well.