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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Final Cut Pro can manipulate 4k files!!!

Yes, if AJA implmented REDCODE in the box as well and had the power to do 4k downscaling, it could work.
But as TED shows in the video, with the new codec independent timeline, a Redcode clip dragged into a ProRes timeline can playback in realtime.

Anyways, we just have to wait until tomorrow to get the last bits and pieces
 
Anders Holck said:
I dont think it's confirmed yet if FCP 6 supports more than 8 bit in RGB mode.
Anyone?
All the tech specs and the material mentions is 4:2:2 which is YUV
Click to expand...

I went to apples site and it appeared fcp6 was doing 10bit 4:2:2 right on the timline. Plus you can edit Redcode on the timeline. But I could be wrong.

From what I've seen, they went way beyond 8bit per channel in everything.
 
Yes 4:2:2 is YUV that was in FCP 5 as well (32 bit rendering pipeline in YUV). What have been missing is a >8 bit RGB pipeline. If you render in RGB mode to a RGB codec in FCP5 the Pipeline is only 8 bit, which is pretty problematic....Motion and Color supports 32 bit in RGB, but that doesnt help in FCP.
 
What about Shake? We need that one updated too!

FPS2 is sweeet! upgrading asap.
 
I know that Shake was axed, but something has to replace it in highend level, motion is not enought, even it can do 3d etc, one needs nodes.
just my 2¢
 
Yes the replacement is slated for 2008, I believe it's codename is Phenomena or something
 
If FCP can't do 12bit RGB every single new update is for not anyway. You'll be exactly where you started: working offline and conforming in another application later.

This isn't some small detail, this is as important as the resolution. You have to be able to handle the resolution and the color depth in order to be online.

If it autoconforms back to 12bit RGB you're ok, but until this gets cleared up we're pretty much back where we started before this update.
 
Still don't know what all the FCP actually means.....

Okay,they use new kona i/o box to ingest 10bit 4:2:2 2K from cameras (incl. RED's HD-SDI port) & tape decks, compress with Pro Res 4:2:2 codec...great.

Kona box/Pro-res 4:2:2 sounds a lot like a major competitor to avid's adrenaline/dnxhd.

Next will FCP Studio be able to do editing in anything over 4:2:2?

Firstly Pro-Res 4:2:2 is probably a format that Redcine will be able to output to...
Therefore any Redcode API in FCP can read native Redcode from Red media and edit natively in timeline...Great?

Okay nice to offline native Redcine files in FCP timeline...Can I extract a low rez version from source RED media and conform hi-rez version later....?

Okay now for onlining in FC Color

Final Cut Colour tech spec here can wrangle 4:4:4 2K files i.e. DPX etc but doesn't give bit depth!!
At the same time it says it can wrangle 10 bit 4:2:2 Pro-Res files.

Hopefully the render engine being 32bit float can do 10 bit DPX files but as Anders says that means crap in FCP 5. so it still worries me..er, who cares!!

Dunno! and that's really the biggest thing in all this APPLE/RED show!

Can I do an extended bunch of edit/effects in a FCP timeline and export to Final Cut Color for high rez version?

Can I perfrom low rez edit, extract FCP offline timeline EDL equivalent, import into FINAL CUT COLOR, conform original RED files to whatever MAX res COLOR can handle and output to 10bit 4:4:4 2K DPX or equivalent.....?

What is the maximum bit depth / resolution that Final Cut Color can conform and output to?

Anyone with an answer/comment ???

Cheers,

Stop press: Didn't see you post Gavin...agree very much..
 
im.thatoneguy said:
If FCP can't do 12bit RGB every single new update is for not anyway. You'll be exactly where you started: working offline and conforming in another application later.

This isn't some small detail, this is as important as the resolution. You have to be able to handle the resolution and the color depth in order to be online.

If it autoconforms back to 12bit RGB you're ok, but until this gets cleared up we're pretty much back where we started before this update.
Click to expand...

Well... some folks will be willing to work in 10bit. Convenience trumps perfection in some cases. I remember working on scans of Panic Room at 8bit!!!! just a few years ago. BTW: is it 10bit Lin & Log, or just linear?
 
Boothba said:
Well... some folks will be willing to work in 10bit. Convenience trumps perfection in some cases. I remember working on scans of Panic Room at 8bit!!!! just a few years ago. BTW: is it 10bit Lin & Log, or just linear?
Click to expand...

It looks like it's 4:2:2 10 bit linear. In my mind that's editing offline when a 12bit 4:4:4 master is available.

If you're already editing offline you might as well work in something more responsive like HD.
 
Are you sure?
I can't find any evidence...
And the native support for the Cineon and DPX file sequence make me think...
 
As an online editor / vfx artist who sometimes works in 16 bit, sometimes in 12, sometimes in 10 and sometimes in 8 (depending on the project) - I'm finding it harder and harder to justify the move to online. Why, when Final Cut Studio 2 offers nearly everything at your finger tips? Perhaps David Newman was right - ha ha.

The bitch is that aps like Inferno require you to go uncompressed, upping the data rate by a factor of 12x. I predict that in 6 to 12 months offline FCP editors will be working with relative ease in Redcode or ProRes 422 codec and will be - er - less than sympathetic to the fact that traditional online composite work will require us to go uncompressed RGB. Talk about hitting a brick wall. I've comped 16bit 4K for IMAX and it is not much fun.

Yet people's expectations will probably be a bit shy of realistic in the near future. In my experience clients already expect us to comp HD at the speed they have grown accustomed to working at in SD. I just worked on a pool of HD beer ads with loads of vfx, where we were expected to post updates for the clients every two hours or so - 96 wip quicktimes in a week or so. Crazy!

Things are sure getting wacky, exciting, creatively liberating, and maybe just a little bit dangerous. Oh well. I may be looking at the death of traditional online (my livelihood), but for some reason I'm really happy about it! :biggrin:
 
I agree I don't mind sticking to 2k RGB Deliverable myself and hopefully a REDCode workflow even on the comp side. But my point is for everybody who was excited about RED's 4k 4:4:4 RAW based workflow, it seems you're exactly where you were before: a proxy based workflow with a conform in your future if FCP is still limited to 10bit/4:2:2.

Compositing in 2k is obnoxious enough. I'm never anxious go beyond that in my workspace. Forget the client, I want it NOW!.

As I see it Pro Res = DNxHD.
 
zeke said:
I went to the apple site to check up on COLOR. Wow, 444 with 32bit float per channel at up to 2K. Cool, but not cool, no support for 4K it seems.
Click to expand...

I'm not so sure what to make of that yet. They say up to 2K. But elsewhere they also say "any resolution" and "all formats supported in FCP".
 
There's the rub....

Weigh up having your FCP 'offline' timeline cuts/effects and all, cc'd in FCC (Color) at ProRes 10bit 4:2:2 2K. That's if you can actually 'export' all your FCP timeline effects to FCC

OR

Export your low rez timeline 'cut only' EDL/XML (whatever) to REDCINE, conform to 12bit 4:4:4 DPX etc files, then export these graphics file to FCC for final grade (umm...effects???).

Really,

we don't know enough yet!

As usual it's all marketing smoke & mirrors talk until one of us actually tries it!

Pro-Res sounds a lot like direct competition to cineform,dnxhd

Cheers,
 
Well, this is what the Apple page says:

"You can even use Final Cut Pro and Color together for Digital Intermediate workflows, complete with the ability to render out DPX files at full 4:4:4 2K quality."

It wouldn't make sense that they would build this beautiful pristine lake of pure cristal water (4:4:4 2K) and then turn around and piss in it with a 10bit/4:2:2 limit in FCP.
 
Ok you guys. I read that some of you are disappointed because there still isn’t support for a 12 bit 4:4:4 4k color depth video. But have you paused for a second and realized what these guys have been able to accomplish in such a short time and breaking all possible rules? Have you thought of what this means for the entire film and broadcast community? Empowering the masses with tools that were inaccessible for most of us only last week, opening new worlds and new horizons for anyone interested in expressing their ideas in a visual form.

I propose a big up to Jim, Ted and all the guys at Red for their ideas, their vision, their strength and will power to bring this project to life, the guts to compete and challenge with all the established camera, hardware and software producers at par level (when very few people gave them credit), the love to share their development with us, and the ability to make our minds race to infinite possibilities which is the fabric of what dreams are made of.

So please don’t spoil our dream with fast critiques yet. An old chinese proverb says: Before you judge, think to yourself: Could I have done a better job? I certainly couldn’t.

So thank you guys @ Red. And Hi to the whole Red community. Today is a good day for everyone.

alan
 
Alan,

We're a user group trying to work out what 'actually' going on with newly released products.

No detractors on this thread..well...except me...but...well

Our hearts are in the right place here, as sounds yours.....

5.5 hours to go......!!!

Hey...wonder what's happening over at c.net at the moment...couldn't resist...!

Cheers,
 
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