Final Cut Pro 10 and R3D

[Alexander Ibrahim]

for simple workflows, fast turn overs, etc. that's fine. but in my opinion, best way to grade r3d, is to actually grade it, not in a linear baked format, even if it's uncompressed dpx. you are shooting in RAW, and if you can take advantage of it, you should. the play you have on exposure, using different color sciences to your advantage, offers a huge advantage. something as simple as tweaking the color temperature directly rather than using curves produces a cleaner look from warm to cool.

again, there are plenty of projects out there that go to pro res with one lights, and stay that way, and need it to be like that. but pushing it to a advanced workflow method is literally not possible right now with fcp x. tiff and tga aren't raw, only the r3d is.

it's more important for the nle to have a way of getting your project to advanced solutions than it being the solution in itself. you are more crippled when you can't get your project out of your NLE to really do what you want with the project.

There is an old saying ... the best is the enemy of good enough.

Look, if you do a proper export from RedCineX or Storm to a format like ProRes4444 or DPX then there is no reason you should have to look back to the R3D.

That doesn't mean that working/grading in Raw is not better. Its unquestionably better.

Its also unnecessary.

If the DP does their job on set, and the grade in RCX is done well, then you rarely if ever need the power of Raw again.

Look, I know what I can achieve in post with DVCPRO HD. That's a stupid 8 bit 4:2:2 highly compressed format. For a huge number of productions that is plenty. PLENTY.

A lot of productions are Shooting Alexa as ProRes. If you shoot Red and convert to ProRes, you are doing as well as those shows. You know what you don't see? Tons of people complaining about how awful it is to shoot and grade Alexa.

Of course ... there is this huge trend of pushing decisions down the post pipeline further and further.

I've always thought of that as pure laziness.

In any case ... it doesn't matter. This discussion is about workflows that work with Final Cut Pro X TODAY.

So, I stand by my assertion that your best solution is to grade in RCX and export a TIFF or TGA sequence or ProRes 4444.

 

[Mikael Lubtchansky]

Not directly related to R3D but still interresting for anyone showing interrest in FCP X.

Just read on a french blog today (they were beta testing FCP X for over 4 months) some infos they collected at Apple during the press launch of FCP X in Paris :

-new XML format to be released very very very soon
-new modern code foundation. so upgrades will be much more frequent. one of them coming very soon might be multicam support.
-there will be no tape control / tape based workflow support from Apple. digit/print to tape thru 3rd party apps like with the new announced AJA beta drivers (http://www.aja.com/support/konaNEW/kona-3g.php)
-EDL and OMF will also be only thru 3rd party like the autoduck OMF Pro Export working with FCP X (http://www.automaticduck.com/products/pefcp/)
-Genarts will soon announce some FCP X and Motion 5 plug-ins
-there will be a volume license offer soon

Let's hope incremental upgrades to FCP X will come soon and once XML and multicam are back, maybe they will bring us a nice R3D/RR support in version 1.25 like good old FCP 1.25 was the first really useful one

source (in french) : http://yakyakyak.fr/?p=7416

 

[Eric Santiago]

well its almost a week and so far the world hasnt come to an end
I was off for a few days and judging from the amount of posts (mostly negative), I guess nothing has been fixed.
Oh well, we all still have our health and Im glad.
Now lets just do more great work and enjoy whats available to us.
I for one still have FCS3, Avid MC 5.5 and Adobe CS5.x (no 5.5 yet until someone fixes that damn 2GB file problem) Master/Production suites.
My XDCAM/DVCAM/BetaSP stilll work under the above software list.

Hope everyone else is still having fun

 

[Alexander Ibrahim]

... Adobe CS5.x (no 5.5 yet until someone fixes that damn 2GB file problem) ...

Wha wha whaaat?

What 2GB file problem in CS 5.5? A few different google searches were not enlightening. Is it windows, OS X or both? Got links to more?

 

[Eric Santiago]

Wha wha whaaat?

What 2GB file problem in CS 5.5? A few different google searches were not enlightening. Is it windows, OS X or both? Got links to more?

Its a Mac issue using Apples Quicktime and AFP network.
It an old issue thats been doggin everyone for over a year now.
It started with CS5 where you can render a QT file over 2GB.
we do large display creative here at times over 100GB file sizes.
sure we dont play that back but we need to render some files over 2GB.
The quick fix is to use SMB which we do and older NFS which we wont attempt with our current XServes.

 

[Alexander Ibrahim]

Its a Mac issue using Apples Quicktime and AFP network.
It an old issue thats been doggin everyone for over a year now.
It started with CS5 where you can render a QT file over 2GB.
we do large display creative here at times over 100GB file sizes.
sure we dont play that back but we need to render some files over 2GB.
The quick fix is to use SMB which we do and older NFS which we wont attempt with our current XServes.

I see.

So if you render to a local drive there is no issue?

I always render to local drives, then copy up to the network drive.

So ... for me at least this is not an issue at all currently.

This isn't a problem with direct XSAN client machines right? (i.e. machines using fibre channel+ethernet for their SAN connection, but not AFP) Just machines connecting over AFP?

 

[Eric Santiago]

I see.

So if you render to a local drive there is no issue?

I always render to local drives, then copy up to the network drive.

So ... for me at least this is not an issue at all currently.

This isn't a problem with direct XSAN client machines right? (i.e. machines using fibre channel+ethernet for their SAN connection, but not AFP) Just machines connecting over AFP?

I wish we had XSAN. No just network drives using AFP. Adobe blames Apple for giving them a bad SDK. Thats what I got from Todd at Adobe. Its quite the topic at the Adobe forum not as heated as the one you jumped out off
We are rendering to local but we have to render to network for admin reasons.

 

[Rob Lohman]

Its a Mac issue using Apples Quicktime and AFP network.
It an old issue thats been doggin everyone for over a year now.
It started with CS5 where you can render a QT file over 2GB.
we do large display creative here at times over 100GB file sizes.
sure we dont play that back but we need to render some files over 2GB.
The quick fix is to use SMB which we do and older NFS which we wont attempt with our current XServes.

As far as I know that's a QuickTime issue, not an Adobe one. Hopefully that's been fixed in Lion.

 

[Eric Santiago]

As far as I know that's a QuickTime issue, not an Adobe one. Hopefully that's been fixed in Lion.

Yes I believe it is, weird that Adobe let that one go. I tried to talk to an Adobe rep at NAB but got the brush off. Todd Koprika told me he was there but didnt think of asking for him.

Just to stay in topic, CreativeCow.net has a section now for FCPX users that want to talk about the using it and not abusing others

 

[Jerrod Cordell]

Really stupid question (forgive me but I haven't had the money to use a Red since build 16) but how do you convert .r3ds to pro res 4444 in redcine x? Also can you play the entire 4K image in Final Cut? I remember them saying how it's resolution independent up to 4K, but I was wondering if anyone's actually tested that.

 

[Fredrik Callinggard]

For the record, I am not at all satisfied with FCP-X as it is. However, I am very optimistic. In fact, I just fired it up and loaded in some footage for the first time and I am already jazzed. I think it has huge potential and I am willing to continue my "serious" work on FCP 7 for a little longer while FCP-X and I get to be close friends. :thumbup:

I think that was the intention from Apple for now until they've completed it with features needed. I've started to play around with it and yes it's completely new, but I'm liking what it's strength seams to bring to the table. I just have to get used to it. I would never completely migrate at this state as I need to be 100% with a "real" project. The fact that they've released without XML support told me the intentions are to come with something better. I also never believe that they would completely disregard such important workflow but that they as Apple typically does - show a point in that they are detaching from it by not implementing it in the first step.

It seems to me as if they've released it for us to play with and get accustomed to, while they beef it up for us. So we're ready when it brings everything to the table. Or at least that's my hope.

 

[Uli Plank]

Well, if that was the intention, a public beta would have been adequate (and keeping FCS3 alive, of course).

 

[Eric Santiago]

Really stupid question (forgive me but I haven't had the money to use a Red since build 16) but how do you convert .r3ds to pro res 4444 in redcine x? Also can you play the entire 4K image in Final Cut? I remember them saying how it's resolution independent up to 4K, but I was wondering if anyone's actually tested that.

There is a PDF that will help. Its in the Export section. Which ProRes is most important from what Ive been reading. Most of ours have been MXF but have done tests using ProRes (HQ).

 

[Eric Santiago]

Well, if that was the intention, a public beta would have been adequate (and keeping FCS3 alive, of course).

I cant remember the last time Apple ever released a beta to the public?

 

[D Fuller]

I cant remember the last time Apple ever released a beta to the public?

LOL! It was just last week. But they're charging 300 bucks for it.

 

[Eric Santiago]

LOL! It was just last week. But they're charging 300 bucks for it.

Ouch...is the mic on?
Well I guess you can also add the iPhone, iPad and some of their computers as betas

 

[Christoffer Glans]

Like art and the creative process... everything is a beta.
END OF PRETENTIOUS TRANSMISSION :smile5:

 

[Terry VerHaar]

I think that was the intention from Apple for now until they've completed it with features needed. I've started to play around with it and yes it's completely new, but I'm liking what it's strength seams to bring to the table. I just have to get used to it. I would never completely migrate at this state as I need to be 100% with a "real" project. The fact that they've released without XML support told me the intentions are to come with something better. I also never believe that they would completely disregard such important workflow but that they as Apple typically does - show a point in that they are detaching from it by not implementing it in the first step.

It seems to me as if they've released it for us to play with and get accustomed to, while they beef it up for us. So we're ready when it brings everything to the table. Or at least that's my hope.

Fredrik - Since I first posted that about a thousand years ago, I have spent a great deal more time with the app and feel even stronger about its potential. Does it have shortcomings - duh, yes! Is it ready for prime time? NO! But I am loving the new paradigm and I think once one becomes accustomed to the new way of working and uses the metadata capabilities to their fullest, FCPX may well be the most efficient NLE out there. (Of course, I'll get 100 responses telling me "no way!" lol)

 

[Jerrod Cordell]

There is a PDF that will help. Its in the Export section. Which ProRes is most important from what Ive been reading. Most of ours have been MXF but have done tests using ProRes (HQ).

That's what I figured, but whenever I go to the Export screen it either says Export to EDL or FCP XML. No option for Pro Res.

 

[Eric Santiago]

That's what I figured, but whenever I go to the Export screen it either says Export to EDL or FCP XML. No option for Pro Res.

Do you have Final Cut Pro installed on that same system? I think you will need that for the codecs to show up. In the Export window you will see a + sign. Click on that and you should see the options.