Feel robbed

[Peter Moretti]

One of my favorite George Carlin quotes about driving mentality (paraphrased): "everyone going slower than you is an idiot, anyone going faster is a maniac".

When RED's disruptive technology gave us opportunities we loved disruption, when the now disrupted industry re-calibrated it changed asset recovery periods.

You can't have it both ways.

Cheers - #19

Yup, things certainly seem different when you're feeling the tip of the blade instead of the handle.

 

[James T Mather]

True.

Night all.

 

[Mitch Gross]

One protocol I miss with film is the way everyone snapped to attention when the camera rolled - silver is running through the gate. Pay attention everybody. Now it's like the cameraman says in Boogie Nights "Nah it's video, it's cheap, you just keep rolling". I've noticed a lot of slacking of on-set attention since we went digital. People don't focus as well as they did because we can just roll again.

When we first started replacing Photosonics 35mm cameras on sets with Phantoms, the ADs couldn't help themselves from calling "turnover!" expecting a huge noise as the camera ramped up to speed. I would tell them that I could scream like a Banshee if it made them feel better.

 

[Gunleik Groven]

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?88603-Even-after-a-pricechange

 

[Dave Blackham]

One protocol I miss with film is the way everyone snapped to attention when the camera rolled - silver is running through the gate. Pay attention everybody. Now it's like the cameraman says in Boogie Nights "Nah it's video, it's cheap, you just keep rolling". I've noticed a lot of slacking of on-set attention since we went digital. People don't focus as well as they did because we can just roll again.

And I think it shows !

 

[Stephen Williams]

I don't believe a Milo is worth anything like as much as you claim, known them sell for $ 100k even though asking price was much more.

I think this is a more of a shock to some than others... As video cameras never had any really long life cycles, just as computers. Film gear and film cameras on the other hand have had super long life cycles.

A few examples....
Im from the post side of things where that 1million dollar SGI machine I bought 8 years back was tossed in the trash 4 years back... And that D6 Woodoo HD deck that cost me 200K USD never even became a standard... even though it was the most promising HD tape format and the only one that was uncompressed. Also I bought a old milo 10 years back... it was then about 10 years old, I paid a bit more for it than a new system would have cost, today 20 years old I would get more for it than what I paid if I wanted to sell it... The milo came with a Mitchell camera that I think took part in the vietnam war... Still until today that camera is one of the most precise 35mm film cameras... Luckily I sold it in time before film died..

So basically, most rental houses or people that invested in cranes, dollies, lenses, lights and such have not seen much rapid price drops on their investments. I think those guys find it a bit hard. The Arri 435 had a super long life cycle... the same rental houses having the 435's now bought quite a few alexa's, red one and epic's... I have no doubt that many of them have calculated for a longer life time for these digital cine cameras.

Just look at a alexa, it's built like one of those mobile phones from the early 80's, something made with german military standards. The truth is that most of these cameras will be used so little before they are outdated so that they might as well just have made them in plastic like a handy cam... I think that is the truth for many redone's, scarlets and epic's as well unfortunately. But epic with it's plastic side grip and other more consumer looking parts is accutally more accurate as I doubt that any of us will shoot with these cameras in 5 years time, then they will all feel like commodore 64 (epic) and VIC20 (scarlet)

 

[Stivan Widick]

HOW true....you just reminded me that i have to go to my schedule of equipment and change the replacement costs of those from $38k to 19k...

$22,500, not $19K, to include the side SSD and Ti lens mount.

 

[Björn Benckert]

I don't believe a Milo is worth anything like as much as you claim, known them sell for $ 100k even though asking price was much more.

I take 5 for that price. Since that is less than what you pay for the track alone, even used. ... can you show me were you found such prices?

 

[Stephen Williams]

I take 5 for that price. Since that is less than what you pay for the track alone, even used. ... can you show me were you found such prices?

It was on the market for about 3 years, originally priced at 400k. Kept dropping, several were available at the time for 250k.
An early one from Cell Animation sold for £45k ten years ago, the one at Yorkshire TV got about £50k. People worried about repair costs. Same story with Cyclops....... SVC wanted £285k finally got around £58k
If you look at the VFX co's accounts you will see they got the Mill's 2 Milo's & 1 Cyclops for very little........

 

[Björn Benckert]

It was on the market for about 3 years, originally priced at 400k. Kept dropping, several were available at the time for 250k.
An early one from Cell Animation sold for £45k ten years ago, the one at Yorkshire TV got about £50k. People worried about repair costs. Same story with Cyclops....... SVC wanted £285k finally got around £58k
If you look at the VFX co's accounts you will see they got the Mill's 2 Milo's & 1 Cyclops for very little........

The cost about 200k Euro new. Then considering that some of the rigs you mention are about 30 year old... Then again if you find a set of milo precision track for a small sum let me know.

 

[Stephen Williams]

The cost about 200k Euro new. Then considering that some of the rigs you mention are about 30 year old... Then again if you find a set of milo precision track for a small sum let me know.

From memory I don't think you will find a Milo older than 20 years. 25 years ago MR was mainly selling Ceiling mounted rigs, & controlling that odd Mechanical Concepts wobbly rig! The Oldest MR rig was built for Peerless around 1979 it was floor mounted & slightly resemble a Cyclops, but it was never portable. In those days delivery was several years later than contracted!

 

[Mark K.]

Just look at a alexa, it's built like one of those mobile phones from the early 80's, something made with german military standards. The truth is that most of these cameras will be used so little before they are outdated so that they might as well just have made them in plastic like a handy cam... I think that is the truth for many redone's, scarlets and epic's as well unfortunately. But epic with it's plastic side grip and other more consumer looking parts is accutally more accurate as I doubt that any of us will shoot with these cameras in 5 years time, then they will all feel like commodore 64 (epic) and VIC20 (scarlet)

I'm not convinced that'll quite be the case, certainly these cameras will be outspecced and outdated by newer cameras down the line. But the image quality is so good on Alexas and Epics currently, that I'm certain they'll have a shelf-life well beyond the time that they become 'obsoleted' by newer cameras. Sure they'll be renting for pennies on the dollar - but that will open them up to rental for smaller productions (who will be delighted with the image quality) so I reckon they'll see use for a long while yet.

We've already hit a point of diminishing returns with image quality on these 2nd-generation digital cinema cameras, and that makes upgrading and 'better' cameras less relevant than they were before.