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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Everything changes... IMPORTANT post.

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All you guys, it's nothing compared to being wound up about a camera for years over due, only for it to disappear at the last minute with not much explanation, for good, when you could have been told months ago. Then for said people to go looking for Black ...... (
 
Les Dittert said:
A hunch : Red might be announcing a new camera that day, and the old cameras get new pricing as a result. Remember that Jim said they would not be leaking info on new products any more.
The Japanese say : "Business is war" . Red has ammo.
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You mean, one with a Dragon sensor?
 
Rob doesnt want to go away, he thinks if he posts the same thing 100 times it will somehow influence a reduced price reduction. If I was RED, Id lower it even more... just to piss him and Milan off who seem to have taken it upon themselves to try and guilt trip RED for their own selfish agendas. ( i havent got my money back yet so p;ease don't compete against other people right now and lower EPIC more than a little). Regardless if RED sees this as necessary to their business model, they continue to post over and over and over and over. 60 pages. 2 days to go. Im sure Rob will post again to quote erroneous fats about the EX-1 used market and its direct correlation to Epic used pricing...

Thus I will continue to post my own selfish agenda which is to say RED RULES and please consider a HUGE DISCOUNT on my next Epic brain purchase. :P

DISCOUNT DOUBLE CHECK BABY!!!
 
I understand that RED wants to drop the price now that there are several competitors around the corner. I just didn't think that it would affect a camera that's only 7 months old. I would've guessed the RED ONE at a lower price than Scarlet. Maybe some Dragon discount for those that already invested in an Epic? :)
 


Tim Whitcomb said:
Rob doesnt want to go away, he thinks if he posts the same thing 100 times it will somehow influence a reduced price reduction. If I was RED, Id lower it even more... just to piss him and Milan off who seem to have taken it upon themselves to try and guilt trip RED for their own selfish agendas.
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HA -- yes, I agree -- RED should go ahead and piss off Rob & Milan. And while at it, please piss them off royally ;^)

-- peer
 
A working scarlet package is $20K. An epic package $43K. A new working Epic package at $30K would be huge. And I could afford 2 of them instead of 3 Scarlets.
 
Robino_J said:
Anybody making a business model over a single digital camera is also a "commodity like a potatoe." Maybe invest in some high quality glass, that for sure will not devalue over time. The tech world is changing too fast specially in the camera department. From 2009 to 2012 it's been a hell of a ride and it's only getting started. EVERYTHING will get cheaper and there is no way around it.

On a side note I saw Sony's 4K TV yesterday at the Sony store in L.A. and it was absolutely stunning. It's also $25,000 but not for "too long...

Thanks Red for your amazing cameras and I can't wait to learn the new pricing.
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That TV is not sold on the same expectation of R.O.I.

I never said I was basing my entire business on a single camera. Our Epic is an investment among others, bought with money which was very hard to save in this economy in the hope of augmenting revenue from what we charge for our time. We could have not bought it, and rented, and still charged for our time, and still shot on an Epic the same way. No matter what we will charge the same amount for our time. As far as tax write-offs for depreciation, they do not work the same way in Canada and other countries as they do in the U.S.

Some of you guys - you really should take a business course, like NOW. Yes this business is also is art, but if you make investment vs. rental decisions only with your heart you will go bankrupt or remain a hobbiest forever with a day job.
 
Red has always looked to the future, and you don't need a crystal ball to recognize that camera technology isn't standing still. It's pretty obvious that the next cycle of releases are going to flood the image capture market with cheaper high quality alternatives. Is the new GoPro Hero 3 that shoots 2.7K a direct competitor? Of course not, but next year's Hero 4 is going to shoot 4K, with a $399 price tag. Is the Black Magic camera in the same ballpark as the Epic? Nope - but next year's BM Camera 2, will be a lot closer - for a lot less money. The 2013-14 iterations of Canon, Sony, Panasonic and Nikon cameras will deliver higher resolution, light sensitivity, and dynamic range - guaranteed - and lots of people are already using the current, less capable models from said companies as alternatives. There's the Alexa, which only seems to be out-competing Red in certain markets due to the false perception that it is easier to post. That competition is going to tighten up when they can claim that they've got comparable resolution with the new version. We don't even have to get into the inevitable rise of copycat bandwagon jumping companies that are looking at Red's success and developing cheaper 4K camera systems. What do the couple of people vociferously complaining think the landscape is going to be like in three short years? I've been following Red's development since a plywood box with a lens attached to it popped up on DVXuser and we saw the first frames of milk girls and funny cars, and I've been lucky enough to get hundreds of days of shooting and editing Epic footage. One of the major tenets of the original Red philosophy was the democratization of the medium, which has indeed come to pass, as I can attest to personally. I would not be doing what I am today if it wasn't for Jim and Jarred and the dedicated people working for Red. Your instincts and tactics have gotten you this far, and have affected a sea-change in the industry, and I hope you are not too disheartened by people who have trouble looking to the future. Keep Calm and Carry On.
 
Peer Landa said:





HA -- yes, I agree -- RED should go ahead and piss off Rob & Milan. And while at it, please piss them off royally ;^)

-- peer
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Yes, Red should piss off loyal and very vocal supporters of their products who work as full time professional DPs and were trusting early adopters
of their products, because they expressed concern over a decision that has real potential to hurt them financially. What a genius way to build your brand. Luckily they don't think the way you do. (If they did, their company would have failed long ago).
 
Maik Müller Menendez said:
It's funny to see how some people try to find arguments against lowering prices. Complaints about price-reduction, wow, am i in a parallel universe or something and didn't notice the wormhole i fell through?
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Calling Mark back to Earth.
Not all price reductions are good for consumer. Ever heard predatory pricing?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_dumping
Obviously we all LOVE cheap prices. Thanks China...
I'm just illustrating the point, that not everything, that looks shiny is gold. It's just usually, in the long run, cheap prices by themselves tend to bite you in the ass, like buying cheap chinese knockoffs or stolen ideas from South Korea's makers, like Samsung...
In this case, I'm actually happy to see the US company- Red, finally turning the table on those, that are taking US jobs away by innovating and producing in US.
 
I'm going to tiptoe into this conversation with a general "attaboy Red."

Also, a real quick reality check:

After reading through 65 pages of this, I'm fairly certain that no one has had their perspective changed .

People that were for, are still for.
People that were against, are still against.

I only bring it up because I sort of feel badly for a lot of people who are pouring a ton of vitriol into the situation, only because I suspect their time could be better spent.

I see the benefit in articulating a position just to be "heard" (my girlfriend is the Queen of This) -- my fear is that someone is pouring a lot of time and energy into a message with the expectation/hope that someone (@Red) will say "You know what? You're right. Our Bad.") Which seems like a misguided expectation at best, and probably closer to delusional.

Realistically, does a company pull off what they've pulled off if they don't know what they're doing?

As a general rule I try not to second guess people that are doing better than I am in the area in question -- clearly they know a few things that I don't.
 
jake blackstone said:
Calling Mark back to Earth.
Not all price reductions are good for consumer. Ever heard predatory pricing?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_dumping
Obviously we all LOVE cheap prices. Thanks China...
I'm not accusing Red of any nefarious intent here, just illustrating the point, that not everything, that looks shiny is gold. It's just usually, in the long run, cheap prices tend to bite you in the ass, like buying cheap chinese knockoffs or stolen ideas from South Korea's makers, like Samsung...
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So you're assuming quality is declining with Epic's price reduction? How do you figure?
 
Rob Ruffo said:
...

Some of you guys - you really should take a business course, like NOW. Yes this business is also is art, but if you make investment vs. rental decisions only with your heart you will go bankrupt or remain a hobbiest forever with a day job.
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Rob - with all due respect, there is a smugness in that statement that is unwarranted. There are some of us that have been engaged in business of various types for a very long time and simply don't agree with you. I might throw that same comment back at you but that would make me look smug. :smiley: (And, there is one JJ lurking around here that doesn't need to be "schooled" in business, I dare say!)

It appears you made a business decision that hasn't quite worked out according to your projections. It happens. We all make miscalculations. Hopefully, it isn't a catastrophic mistake that sinks your business; that would mean it was a foolish gamble. In the future, I suggest you never assume stable pricing in technology. If that means renting instead of buying for you, so be it. RED will be fine, they'll just sell that camera to the guy you rent from instead of to you. He'll take the risk that you don't want. If he is smart, he'll charge you a little more because he has to recoup his investment faster. Thankfully for you, competitive pressures will keep him from gouging you. All is good.
 
Jarred Land said:
I can tell you right now Scarlet, as it sits , cannot handle the Dragon.

But as it sits, neither can the Epic.

One way or another we will make sure Scarlet customers have a pathway to the Dragon.

It is a complicated problem, but a good problem to have.
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This sounds again very hopefully for us Scarlet owners!
Many thanks, Jarred.
 
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