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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Everything changes... IMPORTANT post.

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I really hope that it's just a small price reduction, and not a whole sale price slashing.

It's already hard enough to make a return on the investment for any camera equipment (not just Red), and reducing the cost price reduces the rental rate.

I used to work off a 3 year return on camera equipment. Those days are well gone. But to try and make a return in 24 months in my market, and then to try and make some profit for the next camera or update is tricky. Then it becomes trickier still if the barriers to entry are reduced and there is even more competition in the market.

Already the Epic does not compete with Alexa here. The Alexa is more than twice the Epic to rent, but it is the most popular camera. Reducing the cost of the Epic is not going to change that. There are many other factors in play at that end of the market.

Waiting to see what the new Sony F prices at is smart. (Much like Red did with the Canon C300 this time last year). But again, I really don't want to see the price come crashing down to compete with the Sony. It's a different category and the Sony will win the market for straight to edit TV show production and Documentary. No matter what the price of the Epic ends up being.

I appreciate the honesty and communication from Jim. It is refreshing. But I also don't want to see the value of my tools plummet overnight.
 
Jarred Land said:
We don't know if Scarlet can handle the dragon till the new ASICs come out of the oven... which is still months away.
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does that mean there may be a scarlet -> EPIC upgrade path with this announcement? ... I know a lot of us scarlet owners would really appreciate that option.
 
As someone about to buy 1-2 Epic-X I hope its a HUGE price slash so I can buy 2 Meizler Modules. I am sorry for those few struggling to recoup their Epic but all this new competition ALWAYS drives prices down while innovation advances at breakneck speed.

I miss the days of Red telling us whats next but understand they can't afford to do that anymore. I just want to know when the NEW RED PRO PRIMES will be out of the oven ;) Surely those or Electronic lenses have to be close ... wink wink
 
Tim Whitcomb said:
As someone about to buy 1-2 Epic-X I hope its a HUGE price slash so I can buy 2 Meizler Modules. I am sorry for those few struggling to recoup their Epic but all this new competition ALWAYS drives prices down while innovation advances at breakneck speed.

I miss the days of Red telling us whats next but understand they can't afford to do that anymore. I just want to know when the NEW RED PRO PRIMES will be out of the oven ;) Surely those or Electronic lenses have to be close ... wink wink
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"as someone about to buy" great, as someone who just bought (I.e. Red's loyal customer base) not so great.
 
Rob Ruffo said:
"as someone about to buy" great, as someone who just bought (I.e. Red's loyal customer base) not so great.
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Rob, just because their name is RED doesn't mean they are communists. '-)
 
Hi there Jim. A couple of questions. Only Epic will have price cuts? Or Scarlet X too? Are we going to see significant upgrades for the Scarlet anytime soon? -like dragon sensor- Thanks!
 
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brian leisring said:
does that mean there may be a scarlet -> EPIC upgrade path with this announcement? ... I know a lot of us scarlet owners would really appreciate that option.
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What I was wondering as well, Scarlet was the best choice for me when it was released, without having to make a larger financial investment in EPIC, but I was really banking on the fact that I would be able to upgrade my camera when the time came. A trade in program would be welcomed though in place of an upgrade if it is not technically possible.
Interesting times...
 
Advice to all those who feel burned by this horrible thing that RED is doing:

WHENEVER you purchase a high tech business tool, write it off in the first year - as the IRS will allows most businesses to do for a purchase of this size. Then, assume that you must recoup the after tax value of the investment within ONE YEAR and behave accordingly. If you are successful at doing so, you win. If the asset is still producing value for you in the second year, you win big. If you don't recoup your investment within a year but your asset is still producing value, don't complain, just work harder to keep getting value from the asset and you'll probably do fine in the end. No matter what, ASSUME that there will be better tools at a lower price very soon after you make your investment and plan accordingly. Oh, and have fun - it's all just a big game.
 
Peer Landa said:
I hope you're wrong here -- because that (i.e., being communists) has been my assumption all along ;^)

-- peer
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They are Revolutionary Capitalist (Bay of) Pigs (in a blanket) '-)
 
I think these cameras are tremendous creative tools. I think we all need to spend a little less time in this forum complaining and more time outside shooting. If you work on your craft you are bound to recoup any cost of these cameras in no time. (btw I also purchased a Scarlet in July at full freight, and a little sad but it's not the end of the world. Buying a camera with the specs of the Scarlet was even a dream for me a year ago but now I am excited to be even closer to the potential purchase of an Epic.) After all you are not buying these cameras to be collectors items. They are tools. Now use them.
 
A lot of the concern seems to be centered around the rental value of an Epic after the price reduction. While I realize that many Epics (and R1s and Scarlets) were purchased as rental income generators, I have to believe that RED's business model is really aimed more at the owner/operator. After all, R1's were the device that shattered the paradigm of the film camera rental in the first place. Anything that helps more people purchase RED cameras and make great images with them is obviously beneficial to RED surviving and thriving as a company.
 
Hi Jannard/Jarred

Is there going to be price change in scarlet brain ?

If there is, what about the people who received their scarlet in the last 30 days? According to Jannard's post "If you bought an EPIC in the past 30 days... we will offer a credit towards accessories. That amount will be posted along with the new EPIC pricing. Nov. 1st is when it happens."

I received my scarlet on 10th of Oct. if scarlet prices goes down will I be eligible for credit towards accessories ?

ALSO I have not even turned on my scarlet is there any way I can return that and pay the difference to get EPIC X on new price?
 
Jannard said:
My expectations are that anyone who doesn't own an EPIC will after Nov. 1st.

Jim
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Because of the great upgrade path you're going to offer Scarlet owners in order to simplify Dragon upgrades... right? :D Like $6k -> Epic + $6k -> Dragon? hint hint.

Just think how much less R&D it would be to not worry about upgrading Scarlets. Everyone owns an epic. Everyone has one camera. One upgrade path. One product to support. One firmware.
 
Dear Jim -

Given all the price changes and discounts and special deals, I would like a brand new Epic for free. I want it and I am worthy of it and, doggone it, people like me!

Thanks. Please have your people call my people to work out the details.

Sincerely,
Terry
 
Tom Greenberg said:
A lot of the concern seems to be centered around the rental value of an Epic after the price reduction. While I realize that many Epics (and R1s and Scarlets) were purchased as rental income generators, I have to believe that RED's business model is really aimed more at the owner/operator. After all, R1's were the device that shattered the paradigm of the film camera rental in the first place. Anything that helps more people purchase RED cameras and make great images with them is obviously beneficial to RED surviving and thriving as a company.
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Dude, you rent your camera to your clients for your own productions - not just to other people, and almost all owner-operators rent to others to help make ends meet unless they are shooting every day, which is rare. If you rent your camera to your own productions for nothing your purchase is just money down the drain. Red's business model is not only centered around artists/hobbiests.

We rent our Epic to our own prods for about $950 a day (just the cam kit, no lenses). Let's say that after Jim's announcement the price is half. So now I am renting for $425 a day to our own prods. That's $425 a day less going into my pocket. On a 3 Day music video shoot, Jim's announcement just cost me $1275. Can you see how maybe that is not "wonderful news" to me and my small business in this economy?
 
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