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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

ET Weapon Side Handle Feedback

Paul Russell said:
+1 - for the Redvolt compartment. The Dragon never leaves the house without the side handle on it, and once turned on it never gets turned off until the shoot is over. And all my thumb buttons have special programming shortcuts that get used on every shoot.
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I take it you use the redvolts to allow for hot-swapping main batteries?

I think the redvolt I/O module may allow for that:
http://www.red.com/store/products/weapon-redvolt-expander

but at 4K its a bit pricey if all you want is that funtion.
Perhaps Red may develope & release a more basic red volt expander for the more indie crowd?

And if Red doesn't, since weapon functions more as a platform, third parties could make one (if there is enough demand).

It would be cool if someone made a vmount expander option w/ a compartment for redvolts to allow hotswapping v-batts
 
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Zeb B said:
What's the point in having a sister company build a key component? Can't be better integrated than something engineered / built in-house. Lack of Weapon RED Side Handle tells me that RED is moving away from targeting Canon 1Dc style form factor to targeting Arri studio cameras. No big - just not my jam
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ET is working very, very closely with RED and "is" RED these days. Specific camera components for Epic, Scarlet, and Weapon are under development and they've always made quality gear. I'm actually pretty excited to see what they produce on this front. If anything the inclusion of the Weapon REDVOLT XL Module and BASE EXPANDER with Weapon packages show that RED is actually acutely aware of the popularity and usefulness of keeping the camera small.

The #1 thing I hear about the Side Handle design is that people want it to be "more ergonomic". And I think ET is stripping the REDVOLT support from the sounds of it to favor a more "hand friendly" design, which will be nice for long shooting days.

I love all the keys I have access to now with the DSMC SIDE HANDLE, but I'm curious if there will be as many user programmable keys on the new design. I don't know if the LCD screen is "truly" needed however, so that can go as far as I'm concerned. Heck, I use the Back Light Key even to toggle features.
 
Charles Bergquist said:
Maybe the Sidehandle can serve as a high speed module that does 120 at 6K FF for bursts of 30 seconds with 3:1 compression then writes that to the Mini Mag after capture, I'll throw that feature request in there.
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Epic dragon does that for me now. Not to that 30 sec spec (30x24) but maybe for 30 frames at 2:1 compression all triggered from my wooden Aaton handle through gpio.

Many of the features people request are already there you just have to set it up.
 
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Imagine power consumption on dragons and their touch screens was reduced to 1/3? Redvolts 1 1/2 hours, bricks all day. 30 minutes just is not enough when considering warm up time.

Boot it time needs to get back to 12-15 seconds. It creeps up with every build.

These se sorts of things make side handles more practical. Still, interested to see the new designs.
 
Another big, big fan of the sidehandle. In fact, Its always in my Epic. Great for controling aperture and exposure, for quick view of settings, the custom buttons... Its just a brilliant part of the dsmc concept. Weapon needs one that does justice to it. I also power my Epic 95% of the time through the side handle. Have 13 redvolts and never regreted needing to switch them. Much much prefer how lightweight and portable it turns the whole system. Perfect for guerrila filmmaking.
 
They didn't discontinue it...the whole Weapon eco system is being redesigned and they've decide to let ET (a wholly owned subsidiary) develop the new one.

Thank you,

Zeb B said:
A big reason I'm not upgrading. The Side Handle is a key component to me. Real head scratcher as to why RED discontinued it. No real interest in ET or other 3rd party gear hanging directly on my RED. You get into conflicting firmware upgrades etc.
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I agree Volt chamber makes the side handle kind of large and limits ergo design. That said, being able to keep camera rolling while swapping other power sources is awesome and I hope they'll build in SOME sort of temp battery chamber (would an LP6 specs power Epic for even 3 min?) for just this reason.

Thank you,



Phil Holland said:
ET is working very, very closely with RED and "is" RED these days. Specific camera components for Epic, Scarlet, and Weapon are under development and they've always made quality gear. I'm actually pretty excited to see what they produce on this front. If anything the inclusion of the Weapon REDVOLT XL Module and BASE EXPANDER with Weapon packages show that RED is actually acutely aware of the popularity and usefulness of keeping the camera small.

The #1 thing I hear about the Side Handle design is that people want it to be "more ergonomic". And I think ET is stripping the REDVOLT support from the sounds of it to favor a more "hand friendly" design, which will be nice for long shooting days.

I love all the keys I have access to now with the DSMC SIDE HANDLE, but I'm curious if there will be as many user programmable keys on the new design. I don't know if the LCD screen is "truly" needed however, so that can go as far as I'm concerned. Heck, I use the Back Light Key even to toggle features.
Click to expand...
 
I could do without the REDVOLT compartment. I want something more ergonomic that increases the ability to actually hand-hold the camera. Since getting the Switchblade for my EPIC, I almost never mount the side handle. Mostly because have more functional handles in my kit that can be mounted in other ways. And the camera isn't as easy to hold and sling around as an SLR, so most of us are always gripping and stabilizing differently than we would with the side grip on most stills cameras. Weapon offers an opportunity to improve here.

A battery compartment in the handle is nice for the power options and I like that aspect a lot. So I'm really conflicted here at the moment. In the interest of keeping the new handle more ergonomic, the one thing I don't want is yet another battery type to juggle around on-set. If it uses batteries, it needs to be fully integrated and we just charge the handle, or it needs to stay in the REDVOLT family.
 
I love my redvolt compartment. Sometimes you can't build out a camera with a real battery. I was really disappointed that Weapon didn't appear to offer any battery savings. Honestly if Weapon had cut power usage by half but left specs as-is I would have seen that as a massive new feature since it would have allowed me to go a full hour with a single redvolt in a really compact handheld layout. One reason I don't really care about the weight savings is that more than 70% of my weight is in lenses and batteries.

It would be great if it was wireless. Otherwise I really want my redvolt compartment.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
A battery compartment in the handle is nice for the power options and I like that aspect a lot. So I'm really conflicted here at the moment. In the interest of keeping the new handle more ergonomic, the one thing I don't want is yet another battery type to juggle around on-set. If it uses batteries, it needs to be fully integrated and we just charge the handle, or it needs to stay in the REDVOLT family.
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Off Hollywood's OMOD LT and PRO modules have an internal battery cartridge that allows the new Weapon to run for an additional 5mins. Hopefully the ET sidehandle will go this route as well. Makes sense to have this just live internally for hot swapping. I like to use redvolts in the sidehandle, but now that the XL module is included with the Weapon upgrade, I'll be okay with using them in the back. It is time for a smaller more ergonomic, modern sidehandle. I hope it'll cost under $1K.
 
Smart handles

Smart handles

1) Smaller, ergonomic side handle with an internal rechargeable LiPo battery seems like the right path.

2) Knobs, buttons, etc should be placed in such a way as to allow adjustment of zoom, focus or iris while maintaining a steady grip

3) Handle should mount directly to the body without cables, but also offer the ability to be mounted other places via wireless or cabled connection. For example, I have an ET Mantis rig that is great when your hands are on the handles - but when you need to adjust focus, iris, etc you have to remove at least one hand to do so. If the new "side" handle could be mounted in place of the dumb handle then one could maintain a solid hold on the hand held rig while managing focus on the tons of jobs where a focus puller is not in the mix.

The real "vision" is to have both right and left smart handles - right has start/stop, zoom demand, etc and the left has a focus knob. They could be mounted in multiple arrangements to rosettes on rigs like the Mantis/Clutch/etc as well as be mounted on pan handles in a studio configuration. Ideally the cables would be routed inside hollow aluminum rods or perhaps a "U" channel extrusion that would allow the cables to be removed/swapped/repaired/upgraded. Ideally the knobs, rockers, etc would be programmable to support control protocols from Canon, Fujinon, etc with the proper cable. Lenses with electric motors built directly into the barrel/housing of the lens that can be controlled from "smart" handles would be so great. Your hands stay in the most ergonomic and logical position (depending on the shot/logisitics) - with the ability to control start/stop, FIZ, 1:1 mag, etc - without having to remove your hands from the handles.

It used to be that production modalities were segregated into film/cinema situations where a dedicated focus puller was SOP and the ENG/EFP world where the CamOp was expected to manage focus, and zoom themselves (with a shader riding iris on hardlined shows). All this convergence that's been going on the last decade has changed the parameters. If you have a focus puller then lock the controls and operate, but when you don't - at least it's not a juggling act where you have to chose between staying steady and staying in focus…

Cheers - #19
 
Blair S. Paulsen said:
1) Smaller, ergonomic side handle with an internal rechargeable LiPo battery seems like the right path.

2) Knobs, buttons, etc should be placed in such a way as to allow adjustment of zoom, focus or iris while maintaining a steady grip

3) Handle should mount directly to the body without cables, but also offer the ability to be mounted other places via wireless or cabled connection. For example, I have an ET Mantis rig that is great when your hands are on the handles - but when you need to adjust focus, iris, etc you have to remove at least one hand to do so. If the new "side" handle could be mounted in place of the dumb handle then one could maintain a solid hold on the hand held rig while managing focus on the tons of jobs where a focus puller is not in the mix.

The real "vision" is to have both right and left smart handles - right has start/stop, zoom demand, etc and the left has a focus knob. They could be mounted in multiple arrangements to rosettes on rigs like the Mantis/Clutch/etc as well as be mounted on pan handles in a studio configuration. Ideally the cables would be routed inside hollow aluminum rods or perhaps a "U" channel extrusion that would allow the cables to be removed/swapped/repaired/upgraded. Ideally the knobs, rockers, etc would be programmable to support control protocols from Canon, Fujinon, etc with the proper cable. Lenses with electric motors built directly into the barrel/housing of the lens that can be controlled from "smart" handles would be so great. Your hands stay in the most ergonomic and logical position (depending on the shot/logisitics) - with the ability to control start/stop, FIZ, 1:1 mag, etc - without having to remove your hands from the handles.

It used to be that production modalities were segregated into film/cinema situations where a dedicated focus puller was SOP and the ENG/EFP world where the CamOp was expected to manage focus, and zoom themselves (with a shader riding iris on hardlined shows). All this convergence that's been going on the last decade has changed the parameters. If you have a focus puller then lock the controls and operate, but when you don't - at least it's not a juggling act where you have to chose between staying steady and staying in focus…

Cheers - #19
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+1 to everything Blair said.
 
PC Greene said:
They didn't discontinue it...the whole Weapon eco system is being redesigned and they've decide to let ET (a wholly owned subsidiary) develop the new one.

Thank you,
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And why did ET sell out to RED? Because they couldn't keep up with production of their amazing products and needed additional funding and capacity? wink wink

We'll see if they can deliver - had a year between NAB's to get a sidehandle done.
 
Why does it have to be a Redvolt. Make a long circular battery that fits up inside a handle not much bigger around than the one shown as the top handle for weapon. Maybe not strong enough to run the camera very long, but enough juice to keep the camera booted while one changes out the XL battery.


Never mind... Blair already stated the obvious. '-)
 
Zeb B said:
And why did ET sell out to RED? Because they couldn't keep up with production of their amazing products and needed additional funding and capacity? wink wink

We'll see if they can deliver - had a year between NAB's to get a sidehandle done.
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probably because they were over there at 3ality and saw the writting on the wall, that said 3d was headed for bust!! just guessing...
 
Zeb B said:
We'll see if they can deliver - had a year between NAB's to get a sidehandle done.
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You're assuming Weapon's body design and general feature set was locked down a year ago. Which it wasn't.
 
Phil Holland said:
You're assuming Weapon's body design and general feature set was locked down a year ago. Which it wasn't.
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And that's the advantage of having a clear 5 year plan - so you can parallel process 2 products to an established master design that is locked out 12 months ahead of the next NAB.

From a physical connection point aspect, Weapon is Dragon from what I can tell. Weapon changes wouldn't seem to have much to do with Handle ergonomics and since there is no power to Brain from handle now it's basically a stand alone product. Just give ET their design parameters and git 'er done.
 
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