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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

epics in the 1000s ???

X is slated for production to start late August and ramp significantly in September. My personal take is that this is a very complicated situation. Red has exceeded all our hopes with Epic and created a camera that is quite underpriced compared to it's competition, if there even is any. The Japan earthquake created a parts shortage, Red paid a great premium for enough parts to make these 1,000 or so Epics by hand, offering them in turn at a premium to those willing to pay for a hand make camera. Given that a number of features have yet to be enabled on these cameras, the Epic M program has served two important ends. One: An exceptional beta program with feedback from the highest end users, top movie makers. Two: The Epic has begun to cement itself as the best cinema camera ever made. When X ships we, those fortunate enough to be in line, will benifit greatly.
 
I don't think it's really more than a thousand. I think that there are a bunch of stage 2 and 3 people who have numbers already assigned to EPIC X cameras that are not yet in the wild.

I don't think there are over 1000 EPIC-M's out there. I think it's just the EPIC numbering. Unless X and M have different numbering like EPIC M number 758 doesn't exist because it will be my EPIC X that gets that number.

What' the highest number out there?
 
The numbers seem to go a bit up and down. (received one with an 8XX number last week, while others are reporting late 9XX) But I wouldn't be surprised if there were 1000 M's out within short. I know about quite a few, by now, and I am just me...

Anyone have M #930 out there?

Ketch has M8, but still there were a few more than 7 on spiderman...

Kinda
 
I think there are like 500 max.

M is a limited run handmade thing.

75 to pj
50 to jc
100 to various big budget films
275 to single owners and rental houses
They'd never ship over 1000 epic M's with so many stage 2 and 3 customers waiting for X.
Even with M available now I guess there are maybe 25 or 50 more available taking it to 550 or something.
Over 1000 doesn't make it very exclusive.
 
You are 150% wrong. Keep rocking yourself to sleep at night with that thought.

David Battistella said:
I think there are like 500 max.

M is a limited run handmade thing.

75 to pj
50 to jc
100 to various big budget films
275 to single owners and rental houses
They'd never ship over 1000 epic M's with so many stage 2 and 3 customers waiting for X.
Even with M available now I guess there are maybe 25 or 50 more available taking it to 550 or something.
Over 1000 doesn't make it very exclusive.
Click to expand...
 
If they had the parts for 1000 M's they'd ship to customers who put money down in April 2010 for EPIC X. What would the point of the deposit be then?

Jim even announced limited numbers of EPIC X would be shipping before NAB but that didn't happen because of parts shortage.

I think RED are pretty loyal to their customers and if they could have shipped even 100 epic X they would have. Their integrity is how they built customer loyalty.
 
Red is supposed to make a profit, so on that assumption it would be foolish to stop selling a hot selling premium product for a heavily discounted one, am I missing something?

Gunleik Groven said:
I am with Stephen on this


Edit
Hearsay,,,
But I have some hearsay... :-)
Click to expand...
 
Don't forget that the Module Adapter and Pro Battery Module that comes with the X package isn't ready yet either. Not to mention they just redesigned the heatsink and top mounting section... So, not quite ready for mass shipment.
 
Stephen,

It would be better to sell 5000 epic x than 500 epic m. If the Japan tsunami had not happened then maybe those machines would be out there. Plus the body style just changed. So the EPIC X has not even been built yet except for a short run Of pre production models (mike fireman Ross posted a photo of an EPIC X in the wild).

Stage 2 are a very loyal customer base of early adopters. Why would Red want to bypass their commitment to people who put down deposits thinking they were first up for EPIC cameras.
 
Like any business, RED needs cash flow to pay their bills, keep their employees paid, and create (from scratch) the infrastructure needed to develop, build and support these wonderful cameras. I'm sure all the news about Epic for the past few years has impacted RED One sales. With no Epic-X shipping, and RED One ramping down, Epic-M gives them a product to ship and helps generate cash flow. Now I'm sure, based on Jim and Jarred's many statements, that Epic-M is not particularly profitable, but some cash flow is better than no cash flow. I'm sure they will ship as many Epic-M's as there is demand for. That is what a well-run business does...satisfy demand for their products...and RED is a VERY well-run business.
 
mikeburton said:
You are 150% wrong. Keep rocking yourself to sleep at night with that thought.
Click to expand...

Really mike? I'm not in Cali, but based on RUser it feels like those are the numbers.

What do you think?

Am I really that out to lunch?
 
Tom Greenberg said:
Like any business, RED needs cash flow to pay their bills, keep their employees paid, and create (from scratch) the infrastructure needed to develop, build and support these wonderful cameras. I'm sure all the news about Epic for the past few years has impacted RED One sales. With no Epic-X shipping, and RED One ramping down, Epic-M gives them a product to ship and helps generate cash flow. Now I'm sure, based on Jim and Jarred's many statements, that Epic-M is not particularly profitable, but some cash flow is better than no cash flow. I'm sure they will ship as many Epic-M's as there is demand for. That is what a well-run business does...satisfy demand for their products...and RED is a VERY well-run business.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying they don't need cash flow. 500 m would be 30 million in gross sales. 1000 about 60 million. The people who stepped up and bought M are helping us all. That goes directly into r&d for epic X and makes it better. I don't think they held back X (the thought has probably crossed a lot of people minds) but I just think they had to react in a positive way forward after the Japan set back.

I really think that if they took extra time it was to ensure a really smooth X roll out, better than they had with R1.

If they did hold out, or hold back, that "secret" would be really hard to keep over time and it probably would not bd worth the risk.
 
I can't get any clue about RED financial concept or a model today.

But what they are doing in the last 6-9-12 months seems to me a very risky way of doing business especially

in these days of globally troubled economy and often turns moil of the world's market.

For constantly financing of R&D that can catch or even lead fast technology development you need affordable product for the masses and also to sell lot of accessories.

But Epic-M or even Epic-X probably are not the products that can pay R&D of the next one.

Jim also mentioned once here at the forum that business like this could easily turn somebody from billionaire to millionaire.

Hopefully that new builded Irvine plants are finally ready to roll on production of Scarlet and Epic-S...???!!!
 
I was under the impression that stage 2/stage 3 would NOT be getting the same numbers as their red one, thus 1000s + is the actual number. and about mass production... thats mass production, Im hearing everyday about new epic ms.

Now im not really upset that the epic ms are 50k +

Im upset that I was told one price.. put down my deposit. and now a good flood of Ms are going out. and im stuck sitting on a dream.

the japan thing... the electronics are cheap, and im still able to buy g-drives for the same price i always paid for them.. is it harder to find 1tb drives? yah... but they are still being made, and the price hasnt gone from 250 - 1500 per drive..

anyways rant off.. just annoyed, and could really put a epic to good use. (on an epic job at least 2-3 days a week right now)

hopefully we start to see some 'x's soon,

but i admit i havent been here as much lately, so easily could have missed a big announcement saying epic 'x's to be shipped by august.
 
Sanjin Jukic said:
I can't get any clue about RED financial concept or a model today.

But what they are doing in the last 6-9-12 months seems to me a very risky way of doing business especially

in these days of globally troubled economy and often turns moil of the world's market.

For constantly financing of R&D that can catch or even lead fast technology development you need affordable product for the masses and also to sell lot of accessories.

But Epic-M or even Epic-X probably are not the products that can pay R&D of the next one.

Jim also mentioned once here at the forum that business like this could easily turn somebody from billionaire to millionaire.

Hopefully that new builded Irvine plants are finally ready to roll on production of Scarlet and Epic-S...???!!!
Click to expand...


its a tough biz and i get that. and i dont care if epic is a 50k + camera.. im just bummed that i executed my camera (aka made it worthless to sell.. alot of people want un-executed, and plopped down 5k deposit..

so now im out 5k and out a sellable camera while waiting for a new camera..

long week guys.. lots of stuff built up that im releasing on the net.. sorry
 
Red One over 8000 cameras with average of $20K each (I am underestimate) = 160,000,000USD
Epic around 1000 out there as Jim wrote a few weeks ago, I assume many were given to big feature films as beta testers etc so we cut this into half to 500 x 58K= 30,000,000USD
Not bad before mass production of Epic X and Epic S even started.
I heard Jim said he is expecting to sell 15,000 Epics!!!
 
Zakaree Sandberg said:
its a tough biz and i get that. and i dont care if epic is a 50k + camera.. im just bummed that i executed my camera (aka made it worthless to sell.. alot of people want un-executed, and plopped down 5k deposit..

so now im out 5k and out a sellable camera while waiting for a new camera..

long week guys.. lots of stuff built up that im releasing on the net.. sorry
Click to expand...

Here is the good news. You get a 58k camera for 19.5k. R1 is a great machine. You can sell it to offset the 19.5k and be rocking in z new EPIC very soon.

Six weeks. Things will be much better.
 
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