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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

epics in the 1000s ???

Kemalettin Sert said:
i have seen few epics above 800s
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I'm number 825. And I know of several EPIC's with numbers quite a bit lower than mine that were delivered AFTER me to people who paid AFTER me. I can think of some examples where EPICs with numbers in the 200's were delivered after some in the 400's. There doesn't seem to be much rhyme or reason to how the numbers are being assigned. I've heard a few different theories, and some seem entirely plausible, but only until something happens to nullify that theory. So I don't see any reason to speculate. What matters is your ship date and not much else.

I'm betting the serial number thing is dictated by more than one factor. I also wouldn't be surprised if they're somewhat randomized or released in some sort of number-cycled order so that the "competition" can't pinpoint how many cameras really are out there.

EDIT> I could be imagining it, but EPIC numbers seem to be more normalized lately and not so, seemingly, random like they were in the earlier days of the program.
 
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The point I was making is the M is like the early days of RED one (but better functionality obviously) and RED was right to be cautious about releasing a product that is not yet fully enabled (as in releasing X to the masses) before having a good robust testing like the M.
by no means was I saying that the Epic is not functional or totally buggy...I'm just saying that it doesn't have all the features enabled yet and that could be problematic/annoying for some if they had received their X at that stage.(especially after waiting for the camera for so long) also RED got a lot of bad rap for releasing a product that was not yet primetime ready with the RED One (even though I'm glad they did as I enjoyed being an early adopter). To this day I have to correct people on their miss perception of the camera. Anyway, I am really enjoying our Epic M and am looking forward to our 2 Xs. The more cameras the merrier! ;)
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
I'm number 825. And I know of several EPIC's with numbers quite a bit lower than mine that were delivered AFTER me to people who paid AFTER me. I can think of some examples where EPICs with numbers in the 200's were delivered after some in the 400's. There doesn't seem to be much rhyme or reason to how the numbers are being assigned. I've heard a few different theories, and some seem entirely plausible, but only until something happens to nullify that theory. So I don't see any reason to speculate. What matters is your ship date and not much else.

I'm betting the serial number thing is dictated by more than one factor. I also wouldn't be surprised if they're somewhat randomized or released in some sort of number-cycled order so that the "competition" can't pinpoint how many cameras really are out there.

EDIT> I could be imagining it, but EPIC numbers seem to be more normalized lately and not so, seemingly, random like they were in the earlier days of the program.
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You're right, we got our M three weeks ago and our number is much lower than yours.... So the serial may not mean as much as we think.
 
I agree with the both of you to a point. Your right, early days with R1 was buggy and Im sure RED didn't want to do the same with Epic. That is pretty basic don't repeat mistakes biz. That said Epic is far from the early R1 when it went on the street. I don't hear to many if any, complaining about their Epic M's or hear that its such a bummer that everything is not enabled. It will be in time.
I agree that the M program will and has given RED and all of us time to see what the camera is really able to do "out in the wild" and has given RED time to improve on the camera for all of our betterment.
Here is a point I would like to remind us about, we have been updating our cameras from when RED sent them to us and we will be updating our cameras quite possibly for ever, and so my point is if we waited for the Epic M's or the X'es to be totally ready you would wait for a few more years before they might fit everyones description of ready.
Like Rick said in 5 to 7 months time we will all be very silent I think when it comes to our cameras.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
I'm number 825. And I know of several EPIC's with numbers quite a bit lower than mine that were delivered AFTER me to people who paid AFTER me.
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It is the logic, isn't it? To me, it makes all the sense :-)
 
Stephen Williams said:
Why not sell 5000M , 5000X's & 50,000 S's, sell as many M's as people want, when demand falls off ramp up the X's when demand falls off Ramp up the S's.
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IT will damage rental prices. Saturated market means lower rental rates. R1's go for $300 - 500 in some places. Thats insane considering its a 60k investment.

And Remember, all the Red MXes of the world don't suddenly disappear.... they are all out there....
 
Red's market is to sell, not rent cameras. Historically rental rates averaged 1% of cost, an MX R1 is 25K so 300 is what you would expect.
If Red's & Epics are available really cheaply that's great it's what Red is all about, not ripping off the customer.


Timur Civan said:
IT will damage rental prices. Saturated market means lower rental rates. R1's go for $300 - 500 in some places. Thats insane considering its a 60k investment.

And Remember, all the Red MXes of the world don't suddenly disappear.... they are all out there....
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Stephen Williams said:
Red's market is to sell, not rent cameras. Historically rental rates averaged 1% of cost, an MX R1 is 25K so 300 is what you would expect.
If Red's & Epics are available really cheaply that's great it's what Red is all about, not ripping off the customer.
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A very good point, Stephen!!!

Greetings from Ibiza!!!
 
The reality is that the M program did a great thing for stage 2 people. It increased the value of the investment. Now that EPICs are priced at a higher value, that value carries over to EPIC X.

M's and X's will rent for the sand amount. 1% of the EPIC M.

There will always be desperate lowballers (tends to be rental houses), but that is a fact in the marketplace.

More is better, not worse.

David
 
Rental rates are often hashed over with great debate around here, but when it all boils down to real-world market values, 1~1.5% of equipment cost is the typical range for daily rate on rental equipment. You will often see camera gear in the larger markets rent for closer to 2% of the value, even a touch more, but then they cut "industry standard" discounts such as a 3-day week. Some cameras, like the RED One, Epic, Alexa, etc.. saw increased rental rates when they were first released, but now that there's supply in the market and most of the "looky-loos" have had their look, the camera values have settled.

EPIC-X will indeed have a small impact on EPIC-M rental rates. Let's face it, renters aren't going to pay a premium for an "M" camera that is the same thing. However, look at the cost difference between the brains, it's negligible in the grand scheme of things. I only hope that people buying into Stage-2 who rent the cameras out are smart enough to base their rates off retail values and not off the incentivized Stage-2 pricing. Same with insurance coverage... It's not like people will be able to replace a Stage-2 camera package that is stolen or destroyed, with an equivalent package, for the same money down the road.
 
Stephen Williams said:
Red's market is to sell, not rent cameras. Historically rental rates averaged 1% of cost, an MX R1 is 25K so 300 is what you would expect.
If Red's & Epics are available really cheaply that's great it's what Red is all about, not ripping off the customer.
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I'm so glad youre not my business partner.....

-cheers.
 
David Battistella said:
The reality is that the M program did a great thing for stage 2 people. It increased the value of the investment. Now that EPICs are priced at a higher value, that value carries over to EPIC X.

M's and X's will rent for the sand amount. 1% of the EPIC M.

There will always be desperate lowballers (tends to be rental houses), but that is a fact in the marketplace.

More is better, not worse.

David
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Hi David,

What do you expect the daily rate of an Epic X to be, if you could get your hands on one soon?
 
I'm not David, but I'm expecting the daily rate for EPIC-X to be in proportion to the actual purchase price for Stage-4 -- otherwise known as the real price that everyone will pay once all the privileged Stage-2 and 3 people have their fun. Of course, there will be idiots who rent it out super cheap because their Stage-2 kit is super cheap.

Hopefully people will also base the numbers off next year's announced prices. I will be. Then again, I have people around here under-cutting me all the time as it is. There's a few in town that I don't know how they can do it. They rent their cameras so cheap, they can't even possibly have proper insurance on it, let alone make enough to cover general wear or potential issues. They also have such basic kits to rent, it's almost not worth bothering....
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
I'm not David, but I'm expecting the daily rate for EPIC-X to be in proportion to the actual purchase price for Stage-4 -- otherwise known as the real price that everyone will pay once all the privileged Stage-2 and 3 people have their fun. Of course, there will be idiots who rent it out super cheap because their Stage-2 kit is super cheap.

Hopefully people will also base the numbers off next year's announced prices. I will be. Then again, I have people around here under-cutting me all the time as it is. There's a few in town that I don't know how they can do it. They rent their cameras so cheap, they can't even possibly have proper insurance on it, let alone make enough to cover general wear or potential issues. They also have such basic kits to rent, it's almost not worth bothering....
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Jeff,

That's why I'm thinking of just renting my R1 and holding the Epic X for my own projects.
 
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