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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

EPIC-S...

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Tobias Ashenheim said:
I get frustration, but i think its being fairly tasteless, complaining to the very company that is single handily pushing us out of the 1080p rut that companies like sony got complacent selling to filmmakers, simply because he thought it would be here by now.
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I don't see how it's tasteless to complain. Despite the air of fanboyism that frequently descends on these threads, Red's products are just that -- products, not religious artifacts. Just like a car or TV set. Just as Red doesn't owe anyone anything, no one owes Red, either. People should be able to complain, particularly on this forum. It shouldn't all be about praising Red, but about expressing yourself honestly and respectfully.
 
Some of it is kind of amusing in a really weird way, though, if you step back and think about it.

People hear that RED is selling a

1) modular
2) 5K
3) 60fps
4) 16-bit
5) compressed Raw
6) S35 camera that
7) weighs less than five pounds and
8) could fit in a shoebox which offers
9) over 15 stops of DR for
10) less than $20,000

and somehow they are disappointed. Bizarre.
 
Andrew Huse said:
A Red employee who works with Epic-S told me at NAB that the Epic-S is "very capable of achieving 120p at 2K." But mixing 2K 120p footage with 5K 24p footage is sketchy. I think the change in DOF will be noticeable.
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How so? The composition and field of view might differ greatly between the 5K and 2K shots.
 
Michael Olsen said:
Some of it is kind of amusing in a really weird way, though, if you step back and think about it.

People hear that RED is selling a

1) modular
2) 5K
3) 60fps
4) 16-bit
5) compressed Raw
6) S35 camera that
7) weighs less than five pounds and
8) could fit in a shoebox which offers
9) over 15 stops of DR for
10) less than $20,000

and somehow they are disappointed. Bizarre.
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I think the disappointment is a response to the fact that Red isn't selling such a camera yet.
 
To an extent, yes. But there are people worrying over 5:1 versus 6:1, people talking about "only 60fps", people upset that - while still modular in every other way - the Epic-S won't support a sensor swap. Seriously, take a step back and look at what is being offered. Then look around at the industry. 1080p. Maybe 2.8K with an external RAW recorder. ACVHD, ProRes with S-log if you are lucky.

As to the fact that the camera isn't available, that's understandable. I think everyone, including RED, wished it was already out the door. Frankly, I'm disappointed that Sony, Panasonic, and/or Canon aren't shipping something like that either.
 
Michael Olsen said:
Some of it is kind of amusing in a really weird way, though, if you step back and think about it.

People hear that RED is selling a

1) modular
2) 5K
3) 60fps
4) 16-bit
5) compressed Raw
6) S35 camera that
7) weighs less than five pounds and
8) could fit in a shoebox which offers
9) over 15 stops of DR for
10) less than $20,000

and somehow they are disappointed. Bizarre.
Click to expand...

EPIC-S is going to have serious appeal to both still and motion photographers if the image quality is on par with Epic-X. Especially for shooting motion for high quality stills extraction. Seems like a lot of video shooters still have a hard time grasping the creative advantages of a raw work flow, something still shooters have been sold on for quite a few years now. There is a whole new world of aesthetic and creative possibilities emerging as the traditional technical boundaries between still and motion acquisition disappear.
 
you have taken my quote out of context, by only using the first half of my sentence. My opinion was, that Complaining about a human disaster for delaying your camera is somehow not very respectful, since it is common knowledge thats what the delay is down to now. complaining is of course fine, but we all know the elephant in the room, and most wouldn't kick off about it.

Its easy to call it "fanboyism", but if sony were to release a 5k s35 camera tomorrow with a similar price tag, i wouldn't look back. but they don't, and they wont, and thats not through chance. For many Owners and prospective owners, its not just a "product" its a very important purchase that people build their careers with. this is why its important to not get too frustrated and keep a level head.
 
Tobias Ashenheim said:
My opinion was, that Complaining about a human disaster for delaying your camera is somehow not very respectful, since it is common knowledge thats what the delay is down to now
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This has all gotten a bit confusing and there was no quote in this post, so I don't know if it is directed at me or not - my last couple of posts weren't really made in reply to anything in particular, just thinking outloud a bit as a read through this thread.

Maybe I missed the original comment, but complaining about the tsunami because it has slowed down production - I agree. That's very sad.
 
Sorry it wasnt directed at you at all! just a reply to Lawrence. sorry for confusion.

back to the 2k fps...
I shoot 2k 120p and intercut with 4k 25p with great results, (minus slight softening) it is usually around action, so im not wide open which helps. Just knowing how your using it and keeping in mind how it will cut when your shooting works for me and directors i have worked with.

i cant see it being a different story with epic?
 
Lawrence Bansbach said:
How so? The composition and field of view might differ greatly between the 5K and 2K shots.
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This is true. But if you shoot a film at f/2 then switch to the fastest prime for 16mm for overcrank shots, you can only get to f/4-5.6 DOF equivalent. I think it would look strange. That's why it's better to rent an Epic-X for the slo mo shots, and buy an Epic-S for 24p. It's all about saving $$$$
 
Heh heh heh...by all accounts if you shoot an entire film at f/2 you've got bigger problems...your focus puller will likely be trying to murder you.
 
Michael Olsen said:
Heh heh heh...by all accounts if you shoot an entire film at f/2 you've got bigger problems...your focus puller will likely be trying to murder you.
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Maybe if you were shooting f/2 in Vista Vision. Super-35mm is a little more forgiving. Conrad Hall shot American Beauty in its entirety at T1.8
 
Tobias Ashenheim said:
you have taken my quote out of context, by only using the first half of my sentence. My opinion was, that Complaining about a human disaster for delaying your camera is somehow not very respectful, since it is common knowledge thats what the delay is down to now. complaining is of course fine, but we all know the elephant in the room, and most wouldn't kick off about it.
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You're right, complaining about the delay caused by the disasters would be crass. But in all fairness, that was only the last in a series of delays and missed deadlines. Some of the factors -- like natural disasters and a catastrophic economic downturn -- were beyond their control. Others . . . well, they admit that they can be fairly criticized for a history of failing to meet schedules, so no need to rehash.

Its easy to call it "fanboyism", but if sony were to release a 5k s35 camera tomorrow with a similar price tag, i wouldn't look back. but they don't, and they wont, and thats not through chance. For many Owners and prospective owners, its not just a "product" its a very important purchase that people build their careers with. this is why its important to not get too frustrated and keep a level head.
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That's my point. Red's cameras and related gear are just products, and if they want customer loyalty, Red must earn it just like any other company. And that's especially true of tools people build their careers with. People should be level headed and not get swept up in hype, but evaluate Red's -- and anyone else's -- products as objectively and dispassionately as possible.
 
Oh yes, I'm never in the Vista Vision mindset. But most ACs I've heard talking have found shooting below 2.8 trying, even for a few scenes. Not saying it can't be done, but rather that it's not par for the course, per se.
 
Jarred Land said:
You are right on every account.. but for you that do want to come to the studio to pick up your Epic.. I invite you into me and Jim's office to watch whatever footage we have on the RED RAY box at the time playing back in 4K on our 40 foot screen :)

Thats gotta be worth something :)
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You have a 40 foot screen in your office? Man, I want that office!!! I dream of that office.

dxx
 
Jarek Zabczynski said:
Are you saying Epic-S won't be good for slowmo or that the compression will suffer when doing slowmo with Epic-S? I tend to do alot of slowmo but have gotten by up to 60fps. Epic-S should be capable of 5K at 60fps and 2K at at least 120fps. Are there issues with shooting that high on the Epic-S that I am unaware of?
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There might be one: HDRx requires double the base frame rate. So 60fps is enough to do HDRx at 30fps. Thus, you cannot shoot HDRx and have 60fps slow motion on EPIC-S.

On the other hand, I've noticed that in real-world situations most EPIC-M owners have been perfectly happy with the non-HDRx results. So it might not be a big issue for most shots, but is something worth thinking about.

D
 
David Dennis said:
There might be one: HDRx requires double the base frame rate. So 60fps is enough to do HDRx at 30fps. Thus, you cannot shoot HDRx and have 60fps slow motion on EPIC-S.

On the other hand, I've noticed that in real-world situations most EPIC-M owners have been perfectly happy with the non-HDRx results. So it might not be a big issue for most shots, but is something worth thinking about.

D
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Thats ok. Personally, I wouldn't want to get too dependent on HDRx. It creates a lot more work in post. I can see myself using it on certain shots where I feel I NEED the added DR boost. But I would hate to be at a point where I'm using it all the time. So in a way I welcome that limitation.

Kinda the same way I feel about limited storage space. I remember back in DV days it would be easy to wind up with a ton of footage cause you kinda just recorded everything. Then when I switch to P2 cards I only had two 4 gig cards to begin with. It really made you think about your shots and what you actually recorded. Kinda like shooting with film stock. Same can be said about RED Mags, unless you can afford a buttload of them...I know I can't.
 
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