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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

EPIC-Ms now...

Wow, Rick. Thanks a lot for that breakdown. As a Stage II reservation holder, I was wondering the difference, though my laziness got the best of me. I do hope people rate their packages accordingly. Cheers.
 
Thanks for the reply & info Remi :)

Wish we could order without VAT - instead of waiting for the hassle of redeeming back (in 3 months).

Enjoy your Epic-M!
 
Just got the tracking info that my Epic M will be here tomorrow. I feel like a 9 year old on christmas eve. I can verify that if you put your money down you will get your Epic M VERY fast. A couple of days fast!
 
RED Europe

RED Europe

Andy White said:
If you don't mind me asking, what's the difference between getting from the USA or from RED Europe? There's normally a very scary difference between USA & UK/EUR pricing, although that tends to be the 'big boys' who turn a large % of profit from this side of the pond.

I'm UK based myself and have been contemplating options - mainly as workarounds to VAT & excessive Duty - VAT we can get back, but duty is annoying (it is a business expense, but I'd rather not loose it in the first place!).

Unlucky for me that my funds aren't available until end of Aug... but that's not far away now and I feel Epic is starting to move along nicely now (Epic-M is a pretty logical option for current non-Red users, IMO).
Click to expand...

Just to be clear; RED Europe is a wholly owned subsidiary of RED Digital Cinema. We are not an agent, and we don't mark up prices - UK list prices are in Sterling, are based upon the US list price plus all freight, insurance and import duties to the UK. Thereafter goods are in free transit within the EU and in the unlikely event that Customs were to challenge a product for unpaid duties, the responsibility rests with RED Europe. We have experts in the US who have spent many hours ensuring that our products are correctly classified.
It should be noted that for any goods which are imported into the UK (or elsewhere in the EU) which are 'under-declared', Customs retain the right to revisit the import and charge whatever duty they feel is appropriate.
We do not publish a price list because we need to be flexible and stay in line with foreign exchange rates as closely as we are able to.

The EPIC-M package can be ordered directly from RED Europe. Current price, freight-on-board in London is £38,895.00 GBP That price is subject to VAT where necessary.
We keep a full stock of the entire range of RED products, though we suffer the same back-order issues as may occur from time to time with RED in the US.
Our web team in the US is also working on a UK web site through which you will be able to order from the UK on-line.

Hope that clears things up?
 
Rick Darge said:
I wonder what will happen when all these X cameras are out there in the wild. Right now rates for an M package are around 1500-1800 per day. I imagine with all those X cameras, rental rates are going to drop quickly but then again, the cost of the X package will remain high. Stage-2 buyers are getting the best deal so we should keep that in mind when we charge our clients. The camera system is not a $20k camera.. It's a $40k+ camera and rental rates should be adjusted as such.
Click to expand...

Hands down, the best observation ever posted on RedUser.
With thousands of X and eventually S cameras owned by every kid with a credit card, price can only go down. Our Epic-M productions reserve the twice-as-expensive Epic package not because of HDR, 5K, etc. They reserve the Epic because it is newer, smaller, and twice as expensive.

Sure 5K is nice, and the "color is better," but they respect the line item # and they like feeling current. (This is fashion work transitioning to film: fashion does not shoot tests and draw lighting diagrams, fashion has equipment delivered to set by messenger service, fashion likes the words "epic" and "rare.")

If newer owners decide to undercut rental houses in order to make their bank loan back.... and the camera begins to rent at below $1000.... we all feel it. Jim, please make my Epic-S, but don't make 'em all too fast!
 
Alan Piper said:
Just to be clear; RED Europe is a wholly owned subsidiary of RED Digital Cinema. We are not an agent, and we don't mark up prices - UK list prices are in Sterling, are based upon the US list price plus all freight, insurance and import duties to the UK. Thereafter goods are in free transit within the EU and in the unlikely event that Customs were to challenge a product for unpaid duties, the responsibility rests with RED Europe. We have experts in the US who have spent many hours ensuring that our products are correctly classified.
It should be noted that for any goods which are imported into the UK (or elsewhere in the EU) which are 'under-declared', Customs retain the right to revisit the import and charge whatever duty they feel is appropriate.
We do not publish a price list because we need to be flexible and stay in line with foreign exchange rates as closely as we are able to.

The EPIC-M package can be ordered directly from RED Europe. Current price, freight-on-board in London is £38,895.00 GBP That price is subject to VAT where necessary.
We keep a full stock of the entire range of RED products, though we suffer the same back-order issues as may occur from time to time with RED in the US.
Our web team in the US is also working on a UK web site through which you will be able to order from the UK on-line.

Hope that clears things up?
Click to expand...

Thanks for that Alan.

As always, you make everything very clear and precise. Nothing but perfect service from RED Europe!

Look forward to the UK Online Store being up and running.
 
Alan Piper said:
Just to be clear; RED Europe is a wholly owned subsidiary of RED Digital Cinema. We are not an agent, and we don't mark up prices - UK list prices are in Sterling, are based upon the US list price plus all freight, insurance and import duties to the UK. Thereafter goods are in free transit within the EU and in the unlikely event that Customs were to challenge a product for unpaid duties, the responsibility rests with RED Europe. We have experts in the US who have spent many hours ensuring that our products are correctly classified.
It should be noted that for any goods which are imported into the UK (or elsewhere in the EU) which are 'under-declared', Customs retain the right to revisit the import and charge whatever duty they feel is appropriate.
We do not publish a price list because we need to be flexible and stay in line with foreign exchange rates as closely as we are able to.

The EPIC-M package can be ordered directly from RED Europe. Current price, freight-on-board in London is £38,895.00 GBP That price is subject to VAT where necessary.
We keep a full stock of the entire range of RED products, though we suffer the same back-order issues as may occur from time to time with RED in the US.
Our web team in the US is also working on a UK web site through which you will be able to order from the UK on-line.

Hope that clears things up?
Click to expand...

Tank you for this explanation! Very good to know! Fantastic to order from UK!!
Is It possible to get a stage 3 EpicX with Red Europe sending back to you the Red One?

Best regards.
Antoine
 
Antoine MARTEAU said:
Tank you for this explanation! Very good to know! Fantastic to order from UK!!
Is It possible to get a stage 3 EpicX with Red Europe sending back to you the Red One?

Best regards.
Antoine
Click to expand...

That is our intention - working on it now.
No guarantees........
 
Of course the day-rates will drop for Epic as numbers start to get out in the wild. Any producers that have a good experience renting it (and make money), will probably consider getting one, too, and stop renting. For what it is (arguably the best cinema camera ever), the Epic is very, very cheap to buy. The nit-picking and mewling about pricing sometimes blows my mind.

Also, many producers may start to prefer renting Epics over other digital cameras (sony, viper, etc.) So those rates will drop as well.

It's a paradigm shift - be interesting to see what happens. I think I'd invest in high end cinema glass and fancy accessories if I were a rental house! The used PL-mount lens market shapes up to be a bull in the next few years.
 
Jannard said:
The fact that we have on-demand EPIC-Ms isn't due to demand falling off, it is due to production going up. This bodes well for EPIC-X production when all the parts and pieces start showing up.

As for the difference in production costs between the two? It seems to me that people who have no production knowledge or experience tend to make everything fit in a neat box. "So you are just paying a premium for a few electronic pieces... right?"

Truth is that you have no idea the complication of what we have done to get these -M cameras out the door... the ant-like workarounds and long hours to even get EPIC-Ms as a market option. We'll make more profit on EPIC-Xs than we could dream of on EPIC-Ms.

If you actually boil out the accessories, an EPIC-M is a few thousand more than an -X and has double the warranty. I know most have paid for their -Ms already.

Jim
Click to expand...

I think the M's are awesome value for money! and the warranty is a bonus!
And the best thing is you get them now!

Being honest Jim, (an the troops out there may want to sucker punch me after this comment)
But if you charged a 100K for this camera, I still would have purchased it.
It out performs it's closets competitor x2... and it's half the price... Seriously dude. You have a great product. And no, none of us know how much goes into making a camera like this... or any camera for that mater. How would we.
 
Mark Toia said:
I think the M's are awesome value for money! and the warranty is a bonus!
And the best thing is you get them now!

Being honest Jim, (an the troops out there may want to sucker punch me after this comment)
But if you charged a 100K for this camera, I still would have purchased it.
It out performs it's closets competitor x2... and it's half the price... Seriously dude. You have a great product. And no, none of us know how much goes into making a camera like this... or any camera for that mater. How would we.
Click to expand...

I agree. The value of this camera is way more then the $58000 for M package. Just to be abel to purchase the camera for less in the discount-stages, I see as a homage to all of us that joined the red-movement early. If you just now got onboard and you get your hands on a stages-camera, good for you. But remember "everything changes", and a M camera you can have NOW.
 
58000 * 2% a day = 1160$ maximum day rental for a new M package.

Accessories and service are going to be the big difference between rental houses.

Pat
 
Alan Piper said:
Just to be clear; RED Europe is a wholly owned subsidiary of RED Digital Cinema. We are not an agent, and we don't mark up prices - UK list prices are in Sterling, are based upon the US list price plus all freight, insurance and import duties to the UK. Thereafter goods are in free transit within the EU and in the unlikely event that Customs were to challenge a product for unpaid duties, the responsibility rests with RED Europe. We have experts in the US who have spent many hours ensuring that our products are correctly classified.
It should be noted that for any goods which are imported into the UK (or elsewhere in the EU) which are 'under-declared', Customs retain the right to revisit the import and charge whatever duty they feel is appropriate.
We do not publish a price list because we need to be flexible and stay in line with foreign exchange rates as closely as we are able to.

The EPIC-M package can be ordered directly from RED Europe. Current price, freight-on-board in London is £38,895.00 GBP That price is subject to VAT where necessary.
We keep a full stock of the entire range of RED products, though we suffer the same back-order issues as may occur from time to time with RED in the US.
Our web team in the US is also working on a UK web site through which you will be able to order from the UK on-line.

Hope that clears things up?
Click to expand...

Thanks Alan - yes, neatly cleared up now, thanks for the clarification!

I wasn't aware RED Europe is actually a WOS of RED - it all makes more sense now. I wasn't implying you were marking up, just pointing out certain other manufacturers do this (we all know who!) and then VAR's etc mark up more... not that I am against people making a profit (and having enough T/O and money to pay bills!), it's just sad that our particular industry suffers quite a bit from excessive mark-ups.

Figures wise, I'd presume the duty is 3.7% and the remainder is shipping/insurance on the conversion figure (subject to $/$ fluctuations).

Again, thanks for the details, it makes CFF's a little easier now I have more exact figures (rather than putting $58K with a % contingency) :001_smile:
 
Steve Dent said:
I think I'd invest in high end cinema glass and fancy accessories if I were a rental house!
Click to expand...

To be honest I wouldn't invest in high end cinema glass yet.

Something tells that with RED Mote Pros, iPads, etc, electronic and precise focus and aperture control on lenses is going to become a necessity. Not to mention lenses with metadata, etc.

I can see PL glass making this shift in the years to come.

The focus puller is going to have his own 1080p monitor, with a signal fed over Wi-Fi and he's going to pull focus from his RED Mote or iPad, many feet away from the camera.
 
Thomas Church said:
To be honest I wouldn't invest in high end cinema glass yet.

Something tells that with RED Mote Pros, iPads, etc, electronic and precise focus and aperture control on lenses is going to become a necessity. Not to mention lenses with metadata, etc.

I can see PL glass making this shift in the years to come.

The focus puller is going to have his own 1080p monitor, with a signal fed over Wi-Fi and he's going to pull focus from his RED Mote or iPad, many feet away from the camera.
Click to expand...

I hope you're right with my 6 new Canon L lenses.
 
Another thread on Stage 3 logistics....

Rest assured, we will do our best to make as painless as we can for your Stage 3 people.

Let's not hijack this thread from EPIC-M into a Stage 3 one....

BC
 
Thomas Church said:
To be honest I wouldn't invest in high end cinema glass yet.

Something tells that with RED Mote Pros, iPads, etc, electronic and precise focus and aperture control on lenses is going to become a necessity. Not to mention lenses with metadata, etc.

I can see PL glass making this shift in the years to come.

The focus puller is going to have his own 1080p monitor, with a signal fed over Wi-Fi and he's going to pull focus from his RED Mote or iPad, many feet away from the camera.
Click to expand...

OMG I HOPE NOT!!!
 
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