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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

EPIC FAN NOISE - HEARTBREAKING DURING INTERVIEW

Have the same opinion as you Mike,
My Scarlet is reaching 72 degree in less than 15 minutes.
Delta fan inside of Scarlet has a noise spec listed over 40dB.
This is 4 bucks part.
There are number of German made - much quieter fans.
Wondering why it was settled on such a weak element of otherwise great design.
This cooling fan noise is really annoying.
Sent complaint to Red, shipped my Scarlet for evaluation- but after 3 weeks I was told that everything is within the specs.
This is really serious problem when shooting quiet scenes with longer takes.
Even between takes camera shouldn't sound like cheap vacuum cleaner.
Lets hope Red will listen and come up with better solution in near future.
Regards,
Wes
 
Wes Machnikowski said:
Have the same opinion as you Mike,
My Scarlet is reaching 72 degree in less than 15 minutes.
Delta fan inside of Scarlet has a noise spec listed over 40dB.
This is 4 bucks part.
There are number of German made - much quieter fans.
Wondering why it was settled on such a weak element of otherwise great design.
This cooling fan noise is really annoying.
Sent complaint to Red, shipped my Scarlet for evaluation- but after 3 weeks I was told that everything is within the specs.
This is really serious problem when shooting quiet scenes with longer takes.
Even between takes camera shouldn't sound like cheap vacuum cleaner.
Lets hope Red will listen and come up with better solution in near future.
Regards,
Wes
Click to expand...

"Within the specs"?

Did you happen to ask what the 'specs' were - after your 3 week evaluation?
 
Wes Machnikowski said:
There are number of German made - much quieter fans.
Wondering why it was settled on such a weak element of otherwise great design.
This cooling fan noise is really annoying.
...
Wes
Click to expand...

Wonder if RED could change the Fan? Good fans are quoted <10.
Would it make the trick?

Any official statement about any plan of changing the overall air inflow (ventilator and air intake protection (with RED logo)) would be great.

Thanks

Patrick
 
RotoSub silencing technology claims to reduce fan noise by up to 25dB -
, seems like something that could be used on an Epic.

Hope I'm not :beatdeadhorse5:
 
I think it sounds like the noise isn't coming that much from the fan itself, but rather how the "windtunnel" is shaped.
 
I've said it before, but there are plenty of things that can be done to reduce heat and/or help facilitate the movement of air, but without knowing what they've done/tested it'd be a lot of trail and error. As mentioned, there are plenty of over-the-counter high-cfm/low-noise fans on the market... But it could be the amount of air passing through the grill that is actually making the noise. Don't get me wrong, that's an easy fix too. If they're using a regular ol' delta fan, than they're probably using regular (bulk) thermal paste too instead of higher performing stuff... Probably using an all-aluminum heatsink (when a copper/alu hybrid is much better than just alu or copper...heat pipe is even better) .

Those three things combined would reduce operating temp by 2-5c easily without having to change anything else in the camera and the cost difference would be negligible. Being that 72-75c are the temps at which automation kicks in, 2-5c would post-pone that from happening. Not only that, but with a quieter fan, even when it did turn on it'd be easier to deal with (or you could set the fan's record speed at 50% instead of 37% and still have "silence".) Again, even if it doesn't happen often it's a pretty stupid problem to have.

Does anyone know, at which % the fan needs to be set to in order to reach equilibrium operating temps at an average ambient temp (e.g. never going higher than 70c core in an ambient 23c/75f?)

If you change the fan yourself, would that insta-void the warranty?
 
I have been just running the fan at 100% when waiting and then down to 25% during the interview. I havent had a problem after switching to this but im also not doing super long interviews.(more than 15 minutes)
 
Sadly I am now advising clients that the camera is not really suitable for long interviews.

I have gone back to my PDW-700 for that type of work while I wait for a new Sony F3 replacement to come out.

Really frustrating as I love shooting the Red's so much, I just don't want to use any other tools. I really hope that a solution is found.
 
Eugene Chebotarev said:
RotoSub silencing technology claims to reduce fan noise by up to 25dB ...seems like something that could be used on an Epic.
Click to expand...
If you listen carefully, you can hear that what they're doing is taking one microphone and throwing the noise 180 degrees out of phase with the other mike. They're killing the noise on the microphone -- not in the room itself, and not in the fan itself. This will still have artifacts in most situations.

The ideal solution is a new fan, better heatsinks, and better ductwork. As Apple discovered in their G4 desktops about 10 years ago, in some cases, more small fans going at lower velocity may be quieter than one or two giant fans at high velocity.
 
I am currently shooting a short documentary film in Japan on Epic.

The images are beautiful, and the slow motion is excellent. But the fan noise when not recording is terrible. When there is a room full of monks in prayer, it's super disruptive to have the fan come on every time I cut the camera. It's 30 degrees heat here, and the fan is working overtime to keep up.

Did a couple of interviews yesterday. Three times I had the temperature display go into the yellow. So I made an excuse and cut for the fan to blast in at 110%. It's all set to auto, and yet we can he happily shooting and the temperature jumps.

I really don't want to care what temperature the camera is at. Why should this even be important to me? It's a technical background process that should be hidden, and invisible, and not disruptive to the shoot.
 
Has anyone tried swapping out the fan with a better/quieter one? I fear that the noise is more the air being pushed through the fins of the heatsink than the actual fan itself...
 
I believe opening up the camera for any modification would void the warranty. If heat at the location is an issue, then I would use the solution used by Stephen Soderbergh on Che and just slap ice packs or frozen food on the camera every 20-30 minutes and see if that helps. I agree that in some cases, the size, shape, and design of the vents themselves shape the noise almost as much as the rotating fan. I would also check with your Bomb rep to make sure you have the latest heat sink and fan mods.

The other alternatives early in this thread could be useful: physically position the camera further back in the room, surround it with sound blankets on C-stands to muffle the noise, use directional microphones on the interview subjects. It might also be beneficial to place sound-absorbing materials in the room if this works with your available budget and time, particularly on reflective walls and floors.
 
Marc Wielage said:
I believe opening up the camera for any modification would void the warranty. If heat at the location is an issue, then I would use the solution used by Stephen Soderbergh on Che and just slap ice packs or frozen food on the camera every 20-30 minutes and see if that helps. I agree that in some cases, the size, shape, and design of the vents themselves shape the noise almost as much as the rotating fan. I would also check with your Bomb rep to make sure you have the latest heat sink and fan mods.

The other alternatives early in this thread could be useful: physically position the camera further back in the room, surround it with sound blankets on C-stands to muffle the noise, use directional microphones on the interview subjects. It might also be beneficial to place sound-absorbing materials in the room if this works with your available budget and time, particularly on reflective walls and floors.
Click to expand...
What if condensation forms inside the camera from the cold (I think the camera is pretty well sealed, but ... there will be some moisture in the air inside the camera )? That could cause a short on one of the circuit boards and ... bye bye camera!
 
Seemed to work for Soderbergh. The cold packs would only be going on the heat sinks, not on the boards themselves, so I don't think it's an issue.

If you watch the behind-the-scenes documentaries on the making of Che, you can see the crew talking about this. Note that this was the early Red One, so your miles may vary.
 
M. Bergeron said:
What about this?
https://sites.google.com/a/mecasax.ch/mecasax/products/fanplate
Click to expand...


Very interesting as the hairdryer in my ear is very trying and a genuine surprise for every first time Epic experience for crew and talent . Only bummer is that you loose alot of mounting positions on the top of the camera and I find this is an already crowded space. It is also one expensive fan but I suppose you are paying for its low production volume. I would love to hear from anyone who has used this product???
 
The fan is accessible withouth opening the camera, so it shouldn't void the warranty... Then again, apparently using aluminium bolts voids the warranty, so who knows. Conversely, I'd imagine that using ice packs to cool the camera, with all of its potential condensation and moisture issues, would not be covered under warranty either... Plus it's incredibly impractical and ridiculous to have to do that to use a camera.

This fan noise issue is a stupid problem to have, and "better cooling" is a fairly straight forward fix (plus proper thermal design is not the most complicated/difficult aspect of engineering the rest of a 4k/5k RAW camera.)
 
Worked with a top level sound mixer this week. Been doing it 30 years. He said, "you get to bust my cherry with this Epic thing, every shoot I have been on with one it was just used as a high speed camera" Been doing mostly alexa jobs. I turned the thing on, he said, "WTF? this is what all the fuss is about? It's quieter than an aaton!" It's really not that big of a deal.

Nick
 
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