Epic Dragon 6K modified to Helium 6K S35 cut ?

[Stewart Read]

Hello All

Apologies for any ignorance on this topic, but is there a place in the RED line up for a 6K S35 Helium upgrade to the Epic Dragon 6K cameras ? So.. send in your camera to RED, they put a 6K cut of the Helium S35 sensor (and any new boards etc) into your Epic Dragon 6K and send it back to you.

This might be useful for people wanting the ISO performance and in camera colour science of the Helium S35 sensor but who do not want or need 8K and want to extend the relevance of their current Epic Dragon 6K camera.

My (rather sketchy!) understanding is that if you want to shoot 5K on the 8K cameras for example, that you are cropping the sensor (and potentially increasing noise ?) is this incorrect ? I guess it comes down to this.. is cropping the sensor in camera the same as using a smaller physical cut of the sensor ?

I am most likely missing the point on this so welcome the chance to learn about this topic.

 

[Mikael Lubtchansky]

Helium is a sensor with smaller pixel than DRAGON. If you 'cut' a S35 sized sensor it will be around 5-6K for DRAGON and 7-8K for Helium..

If you 'cut' an Helium at 6K it will have the same size as a 4K DRAGON, so it could fit maybe in a RAVEN but will crop your lenses compared to S35 / 6K DRAGON

Check Phil Holland's super useful format comparison tool to visualize the differences between the 2 sensors :
http://phfx.com/tools/formatCompare/

(And yes cropping physically a sensor or in camera via lower resolution produces the same result...)

 

[Björn Benckert]

If making a 6k Helium it would not be a S35 camera but 3/4 of such. As helium 8k is about S35 in size.

 

[Ulf Krentz]

Also in the first place there is no such thing as a 6K Helium so far.

 

[Patrick Tresch]

But he ask for a 6k cut (cheaper) from the Helium 8k sensor as there is an anamorphic cut from the 8k Vistavision Dragon.

 

[Stewart Read]

Thanks for the info

 

[Russ Fill]

I'd bet a 2/3 size cut of the Helium sensor might Create some interest, to fill the video 1080ish camera void the R3d version of a 2/3rd chip set would be interesting.

 

[Björn Benckert]

Possibly they can use left over sensors and make 6k helium ravens. Helium at 4k is also a good 16mm sensor.

 

[Aaron Lochert]

Here's how different "cuts" off the Helium sensor compare to other formats.

7K HD on Helium is almost exactly S35 3-perf.

6K FF is nearly Academy 35 width, closer to Raven. So compare it to shooting Academy "Flat" widescreen 1.85:1. Helium lacks the sensor height for true 4-perf on 35mm. This width is also comparable to many other digital Super 35 cameras on the market that are actually just shy of the format.

5K HD is 17.52mm in width, almost exactly micro four thirds (17.3mm)

4.5K HD is almost exactly the same as the Blackmagic Cinema Camera (15.77 x 8.67mm versus 15.8 x 8.8mm).

4K FF and HD is still too large for Super 16mm.

3.5K HD is almost exactly Super 16mm.

And lastly, 3K 4:3 is close to standard 16mm.

 

[Björn Benckert]

Here's how different "cuts" off the Helium sensor compare to other formats.

7K HD on Helium is almost exactly S35 3-perf.

6K FF is nearly Academy 35 width, closer to Raven. So compare it to shooting Academy "Flat" widescreen 1.85:1. Helium lacks the sensor height for true 4-perf on 35mm. This width is also comparable to many other digital Super 35 cameras on the market that are actually just shy of the format.

5K HD is 17.52mm in width, almost exactly micro four thirds (17.3mm)

4.5K HD is almost exactly the same as the Blackmagic Cinema Camera (15.77 x 8.67mm versus 15.8 x 8.8mm).

4K FF and HD is still too large for Super 16mm.

3.5K HD is almost exactly Super 16mm.

And lastly, 3K 4:3 is close to standard 16mm.

4K wide, would it fit s16?

 

[Aaron Lochert]

4K wide, would it fit s16?

An image circle of 16.23mm is needed to cover 4K WS on Helium. S16 only needs 14.54mm. So you're gonna have a mixed bag of some S16 lenses that cover it and some that don't.

If you want guaranteed coverage, go for 3.5K HD. The image circle needed is 14.47mm. Like I said, almost exactly S16.

 

[David Mullen ASC]

Cropping the 8K Helium to 6K would give you the same results whether you physically cut the 8K sensor down to a 6K area or just recorded a 6K portion off of the 8K sensor.