Emotimo, Rhino Arc 2 or something else ?

[Andreas Gotfredsen]

Hi all.

I am looking at getting a motorized 4 axis head for my dsmc2 body asap.

The two I've looked at so far is Emotimo Spectrum st4 and Rhino Arc 2

I already got an Cineslider so the the Emotimo can work with that but if the Rhino Arc 2 or something else is better I can get another slider

What do you use and what do you recommend ?

 

[Giles Harvey]

Rhino have been awful for me. Owned one for 2 years and only been able to use it a handful of times as it kept breaking. It went back to the factory twice and UK supplier at least another 2 or 3 times and one of the times it was gone for nearly 3 months. Zero customer support. I asked for full refund recently and was offered a discount on an upgrade. I don't have a problem with tech failing as this happens but the way it was dealt with shows what sort of company they are. If i had the energy i would fight it as it failed within warranty but they have been so bad to deal with I simply can't let it bring me down anymore. Save yourself the headache. I'd rather use a roller skate with a piece of string tied to both ends

 

[Andreas Gotfredsen]

so what motorized solution do you recommend for a dsmc2 ? Emotimo ? or maybe something else ?

Rhino have been awful for me. Owned one for 2 years and only been able to use it a handful of times as it kept breaking. It went back to the factory twice and UK supplier at least another 2 or 3 times and one of the times it was gone for nearly 3 months. Zero customer support. I asked for full refund recently and was offered a discount on an upgrade. I don't have a problem with tech failing as this happens but the way it was dealt with shows what sort of company they are. If i had the energy i would fight it as it failed within warranty but they have been so bad to deal with I simply can't let it bring me down anymore. Save yourself the headache. I'd rather use a roller skate with a piece of string tied to both ends

 

[Andreas Gotfredsen]

maybe the new CineShooter ? thought its very similar to the st4

 

[Giles Harvey]

I'm yet to find the best motorised solution and use my Trost (group buy from here) for heavy set ups. Looking to get something as and when komodo comes

 

[M Harvey]

I recently used the Emotimo ST4 with the Dana Dolly integration kit with a DSMC2 Scarlet W and a DSMC1 Dragon. The unit is pretty easy to use--I really like the PS4 controller interface--, and you can have it do quite sophisticated things.

It worked pretty well for our purpose, which required frame accurate motion control on repeated movements. That said, we had problems with getting perfectly repeated movements over long moves--usually fine on our 6 ft rails, but some slippage on the 9 ft rails. I think this would probably be a challenge with any comparable system, and more than likely it comes down to issues with the location itself, which had old floorboards with a lot of flex. (We had crew members stay absolutely still during moves, but even the shifting of the weight of the camera might have caused issues.) Regardless, sounds like you're looking at shorter moves with a rigid slider.

In terms of weight, I didn't do anything to really stress the Emotimo-- we stripped the camera down to 5" monitor (for control), teradek, battery, and lens (ultraprimes). It's also possible to take the battery off and power the camera from the Emotimo's v-mount. It's rated to 15 lbs but, as with a lot of this type of thing, actually getting to that weight range requires that you balance your load carefully.

 

[David Coughlan]

I've been using the ST4 / Dana Dolly combo for a while now. Some parts are really easy plug and play (programming simple moves with the controller), others are a little frustrating (Dragonframe integration has always required fiddling for me), and it does require some attention to the setup to achieve frame accurate passes, particularly over longer runs.

Keys for me have been using stable stands and making sure that the belt is routed properly https://support.emotimo.com/hc/en-us/articles/360015666952-Dana-Dolly-Belt-Setup- There can't be any slack or you'll get a bit of jerking / loosening of the belt on successive runs.

I have achieved 4x pass frame accurate moves on a 10' rail, so it can be done, but it required some learning of the system first. Emotimo support was very quick the one time I needed it (for a user error).

Haven't used the other options so I can't directly compare.

 

[Andreas Gotfredsen]

my most used movement will be ping pong movement for interviews but I need to do other stuff aswell ..... is the st4 overkill or perfect match ? and if its overkill what other motorised options is there out there for ping pong style interview movement for dsmc2 ?

 

[Phil Holland]

my most used movement will be ping pong movement for interviews but I need to do other stuff aswell ..... is the st4 overkill or perfect match ? and if its overkill what other motorised options is there out there for ping pong style interview movement for dsmc2 ?

eMotimo ST4 does that well.

I'm getting my hands on the Kessler CineShooter relatively soon and will have feedback on that as well.

These systems, all of them, are all about payload, balance, and how you set them up really to get good results.

 

[Andreas Gotfredsen]

So I decided to go with the emotimo st4 .

Any things I need to think about ?

And I plan to use it with my Cineslider .... is that a good or bad idea ... do I need to get myself a Dana Dolly ?

Thanks

 

[M Harvey]

Great! I'm sure you'll enjoy it.

I haven't myself used the ST4 with the Cineslider or any other slider-- just the Dana--, so take my thoughts with a grain of salt. But I'd guess a slider would be easier than any kind of dolly, as it's an integrated unit-- assuming it's sufficiently well built for your load, there are fewer failure points (e.g. slightly misaligned rails, flex over a 9-foot move, etc.).

 

[David Coughlan]

I'd wait to see how you get on with the Cineslider before grabbing the Dana. The big advantage to the Dana is long moves with heavy payloads, but if you don't find you're missing those, then I think the slider will do just fine.

Pick up one of the I/O cables if you think you may want to use Dragonframe for complex move programming.

 

[Andreas Gotfredsen]

Great! I'm sure you'll enjoy it.

I haven't myself used the ST4 with the Cineslider or any other slider-- just the Dana--, so take my thoughts with a grain of salt. But I'd guess a slider would be easier than any kind of dolly, as it's an integrated unit-- assuming it's sufficiently well built for your load, there are fewer failure points (e.g. slightly misaligned rails, flex over a 9-foot move, etc.).

Thanks for the input. The Cineslider takes about 80 lbs so its solid ... never thought about misaligned rails for the dolly . my worries about the cineslider is that it might wobble sideways because it has a much narrower footprint then the Dana Dolly

 

[M Harvey]

never thought about misaligned rails for the dolly

Yeah, there are more separate parts to fiddle with with a dolly (individual rails, stands, etc.), and the runs are typically longer. And then the Emotimo involves lining up two clamps on the dolly track holders, and then securing the plastic chain to those clamps and the Emotimo motor. It's a great system-- but small inaccuracies can effectively be multiplied over a long run. David earlier posted a link to some "best practices" for ST4 with Dana Dolly, and being careful about those things really makes a big difference.

I do think you can probably be *a bit* more casual with a slider. :smiley:

my worries about the cineslider is that it might wobble sideways because it has a much narrower footprint then the Dana Dolly

The advice here to see how you do with the Cineslider before committing to the whole package is good--that kind of torque force is a challenge with a lot of sliders. But the Cineslider does look very sturdy, and you can do a lot just by balancing your load well.

If it's not meeting your needs, the MYT glider is wider (getting close to dana dolly territory) and potentially allows the camera to sit lower, and the Trost is designed to have a lower center of gravity. I haven't personally tried them.