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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Eminem "Phenomenal" Music Video Teaser - Shot on Weapons and Master Anamorphics

Christopher*Seguine said:
From the screen grabs:

5k 6:5 95.9fps
6:1 Weapon vs 8:1 Dragon

6k 6:5 47.95
5:1 Weapon vs 5:1 Dragon

6k 6:5 23.98
4:1 Weapon vs 3:1 Dragon

5k 6:5 is 13.1mb/frame, dragon data rate is 157.2MB/sec, based on the screen shots Weapon is 209.6MB/sec

only about 30% increase in data rate, hope it gets better by release, less compression at high frame rates was our only reason for upgrading.




The 24 L II vignettes 1 stop even at f5.6 on FF35, 3 stops or so wide open, can't see how there is not more vignetting on the larger 46mm 8k image circle.


Some excellent camera work in there, specially the fight scenes!

the apple watch product placement in an Eminem video makes me want to puke,
'F* money. I don't rap for dead presidents; I'd rather see the president...'
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My "base" compression was mainly 4:1... The camera I belive would do even 2:1 at 23.98... However, as soon as I switched to any higher frame-rate, I always go for the minimal compression available, so that's what you are seeing reflected in my screengrabs. For me, not going to 8:1 compression is a HUGE advantage for the Carbon Weapons. But I'm picky and I don't mind filling up extra drives if necessary to protect my "negative".

As for 8K coverage, even though the sensor is wider than FF it is still SHORTER in height, so this does affect image circle coverage. There have been many diagrams posted illustrating this. I saw this as well with that 24mm Canon L lens... It had only the SLIGHTEST darkening at the extreme corners of the Full 8K 1.89K1 frame. And for the shot we were using that for, it was WAYYYY away from the action area on the bluescreen we were shooting. For me, it's penalty free as yet another way Red cameras are adaptable and modular to any situation. No one is forcing you to shoot everything in 8K, but it's nice to have the option if you need it.

EVERY music video today is now packed with all sorts of product placement. As record labels cry foul that no one buys music any more, they slash budgets and we're forced to find parts of the missing budgets elsewhere. And in the case of Interscope, they owned Beats headphones, so EVERY Interscope video HAD to feature Beats in it... If I had a dollar for every time I had to stop what I was wanting to shoot to work on a Beats product placment shot, well I'd have like 20 dollars or more! Whoohoo! Funny, as I see it, music videos generate more revenue than they EVER did before... YouTube monetizes views, Itunes/Apple SELLS the videos as downloaded product, and there are even DVD anthology releases of artist's videos. They used to be all just advertizement back when there were budgets, and now money is being made off the videos and yet the budgets have plummeted. Go figger.
 
Christopher Probst said:
No one is forcing you to shoot everything in 8K, but it's nice to have the option if you need it..
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True, but the cost for us upgrading from dragon-M to CF + 8k cameras, is pretty significant, so not much reason to upgrade if your not going to use 8k, at least for us - no interest in prores.
Just think its going to be difficult with lens selection for any type of zoom besides the CZs and for wide primes.
Sony and Canon are doing 8k in standard 35FF sensor, Arri a much larger sensor - so I dont see much lens development happening for the niche 46mm 8k interim size.

Did you notice any boot up time improvement with the weapon bodies?
the video Red posted shows Weapon powering up and ready to record in 10 seconds, which would be amazing compared to 45 seconds on a dragon..
But Dino mentioned the weapon he used was slower than dragon to power up.

You were shooting pretty low ISO, SkinTone olpf for everything?

Dialog scene with JM, Fan noise on weapon any better/worse ?

Did you use the Arri UMC lens controller to record LDS metadata for the vfx shots or not worth the effort for just focus pulls?

Product placement may be a necessary evil for lesser known artists to get projects produced, but exclusive distribution and promotion for apple music, south paw soundtrack, pretty great concert ticket sales, and you still have to wear an apple tramp stamp around your wrist to get your video made, gross.
 
Just wanted to say thanks for the amazing/inspiring work and for taking the time to post a little bts breakdowns! I wish to someday be as good as you.
 
Christopher*Seguine said:
True, but the cost for us upgrading from dragon-M to CF + 8k cameras, is pretty significant, so not much reason to upgrade if your not going to use 8k, at least for us - no interest in prores.
Just think its going to be difficult with lens selection for any type of zoom besides the CZs and for wide primes.
Sony and Canon are doing 8k in standard 35FF sensor, Arri a much larger sensor - so I dont see much lens development happening for the niche 46mm 8k interim size.

Did you notice any boot up time improvement with the weapon bodies?
the video Red posted shows Weapon powering up and ready to record in 10 seconds, which would be amazing compared to 45 seconds on a dragon..
But Dino mentioned the weapon he used was slower than dragon to power up.

You were shooting pretty low ISO, SkinTone olpf for everything?

Dialog scene with JM, Fan noise on weapon any better/worse ?

Did you use the Arri UMC lens controller to record LDS metadata for the vfx shots or not worth the effort for just focus pulls?

Product placement may be a necessary evil for lesser known artists to get projects produced, but exclusive distribution and promotion for apple music, south paw soundtrack, pretty great concert ticket sales, and you still have to wear an apple tramp stamp around your wrist to get your video made, gross.
Click to expand...

My guess is most primes 35mm and up will cover 8K fine (image circle tends to expand as focal lengths get longer...)

I'm also guessing most FF35 primes should cover 8KHD just fine.

And if they don't, there's always 7.5K.
 
Chris, there is something I have wanted to ask since you started the Lexus thread. When working with LED lights, that have adjustable color temp and tint settings, do you spend much time trying to match them or rely on the digital number shown? I ask because my 3-point lighting kit, for doc interviews, includes an Arri L5-C and L7-C. They are off about 300+ degrees when set to the same setting. I have measured both using a high end spectroradiometer (Minolta CS-2000) I was curious how important matching them is to you. Just thinking of the scenario where you had 144 Kino tubes for the Lexus Super Bowl ad.

What Dragon reads the color temp as is also different. I was bored one day and decided to light a card with the L7-C and adjust the color and tint settings on the light until the Dragon's auto white balance effectively did nothing. Or at least as close to nothing as possible. This was before Graeme explained to me how the camera color temp works. I think the light was set to 6250 and -9 on tint for Dragon to read 5600 and 0 tint. I did this test back in January 2014, so the numbers are from a foggy memory. I do plan to retest using a NIST certified Lambertion surface. For my next experiment, I also plan to paint a mannequin head to make it a Lambertion surface (reflects all wavelengths equally) and color match the lights for an interview setup. And of course when you add a softbox the color changes a bit. And again if you use the egg create in the softbox.

I think I have gone way off topic, sorry. :)

How much are you involved with the post side on these videos? How many TBs of footage was shot for this video? If you are allowed to share, of course.
 
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Chris the 287.4 shutter - was that to control flicker at highspeed?

Also, the added bump in exposure - was that a happy accident or conscious choice?

Thanks!!
 
Yes on all fronts. ALSO, many times we may shoot something with a higher frame rate with the idea we may be speeding it back up to normal... Maybe a speed ramp, maybe more frames for VFX, whatever. I often will pick either a direct match to the motion blurr we want at 24fps, or a "split the difference"... I wouldn't want a shot resolved back to 24fps but with the motion blur of a 45-degree shutter cut around normal 24fps/180 material...

The lessened blow on exposure compensation ain't a bad thing either...
 
Christopher Probst said:
Yes on all fronts. ALSO, many times we may shoot something with a higher frame rate with the idea we may be speeding it back up to normal... Maybe a speed ramp, maybe more frames for VFX, whatever. I often will pick either a direct match to the motion blurr we want at 24fps, or a "split the difference"... I wouldn't want a shot resolved back to 24fps but with the motion blur of a 45-degree shutter cut around normal 24fps/180 material...

The lessened blow on exposure compensation ain't a bad thing either...
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Awesome. Thanks. Super helpful.
 
Honestly, Chris you elevate the RU experience every time you post. I've learned more from your posts....they are like American Cinematographer articles IN ACTION.
 
Nick Morrison said:
Honestly, Chris you elevate the RU experience every time you post. I've learned more from your posts....they are like American Cinematographer articles IN ACTION.
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100% I was just reading this, then looking back at the footage video, then checked out all the camera settings ... and then did a test shot for one of my scenes(worked perfectly). I really find it very useful seeing the final video, the actual in camera shot footage, and then the quick shots of the actual camera settings - this allows me to really learn/figure it out.
 
PatrickFaith said:
100% I was just reading this, then looking back at the footage video, then checked out all the camera settings ... and then did a test shot for one of my scenes(worked perfectly). I really find it very useful seeing the final video, the actual in camera shot footage, and then the quick shots of the actual camera settings - this allows me to really learn/figure it out.
Click to expand...

Yup - to me Chris' posts are required reading. At least personally...
 
Chris, any thing you can share on the audible noise of the camera with its new cooling system? Assuming you were able listen to it in a quiet location. The 2.0 fan system has a high pitch sound from the front fan. Other than the high pitch, I thought fan 2.0 was better than fan 1.0. I am hoping the Weapon system is even better since there is no front fan at all. I am thinking of the doc interview scenario in a quiet location with the subject being 4-5' from camera.

Did you try out the scratch mics on the front? I am excited about those too for general scratch audio.

Which OLPF did you have in the camera(s)? Did you request one over the other?
 
The camera is SOOOO quiet it's hard to hear! The whole cooling path is so much better that the camera performs much better as well. We did have the built in scratch mikes working and they worked as intended. This was all Low Light OLPF, no big surprise there since the whole video is in LOW LIGHT!
 
Christopher Probst said:
The camera is SOOOO quiet it's hard to hear! The whole cooling path is so much better that the camera performs much better as well. We did have the built in scratch mikes working and they worked as intended. This was all Low Light OLPF, no big surprise there since the whole video is in LOW LIGHT!
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Thanks for the update Chris! Super helpful!
 
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