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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

DSMC2 users petition to RED

Honestly just having access to affordable media would be great.

I wonder if KipperTie would be open to making more affordable 1TB mags? They'd sell TONS. Especially now that RED no longer services DSMC2, I doubt they'd care? And would maybe even sanction that.
 
Nick Morrison said:
Especially now that RED no longer services DSMC2, I doubt they'd care?
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RED still services DSMC2 outside of a handle of modules and media. They stopped selling DSMC2, but if handled like previous product lines then they'll continue servicing DSMC2 for the foreseeable future until parts run out.
 
Realty is that not even DSMC2 owners seams to really care. I have tried but unfortunately we didnt even make a real petition. personally i can say that i got fed up with all of it and i sold my Monstro for peanuts. I am deeply disappointed with Red and i will never ever trust them again.
 
Luka Sanader said:
Realty is that not even DSMC2 owners seams to really care. I have tried but unfortunately we didnt even make a real petition. personally i can say that i got fed up with all of it and i sold my Monstro for peanuts. I am deeply disappointed with Red and i will never ever trust them again.
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Wow, that is disappointing to hear... I don't know if it's owners not technologically in tune or what. I donated my 1.8" mags to someone who bought his first RED Epic. Sadly he was shooting 6k on 128gig mags 7 minutes at a time. 2 out of 4 had died, he had no idea about the mini-mag and the module replacement. I can't do much more for him, it's a shit situation and he's gonna have to figure out. I'm afraid that'll also be the case for us remaining DSMC2 owners when these ssd minimags start dying. All the best to you and your new gear brother, I'm still somewhat hopeful.

EDIT: I just saw the sale price... I'm absolutely shocked.
 
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Mark Chang said:
hese ssd minimags start dying.
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To quelch whatever level of panic attached to that thought process, there's a good chance the majority of minimags will keep rolling for 7-14 years. Will depend on their condition, usage, and roll-time. But most aren't hitting half-life when it comes down to it. And you can get used ones cheap. So double down on extra media if this is a concern.

As I said elsewhere, forward the feature requests to RED you want added. The petition strategy is interesting, but RED genuinely does take into account user feedback. The question is really down to if they can, have the resources, or find a way to implement one more firmware update or whatever.

The key one I can see most looking for is 1.5X anamorphic support, thought that can easily be worked around. The rest of the considerations are a little more in depth are really not a realistic endeavor. And I do think part of the equation here is people have been filming for years on DSMC2 without actual issue. Reading over all the points in the first post, the OLPF thing isn't that plain and simple as it requires 5 variables including hardware related things that I can see. Though RED could attempt to craft something new and specific, but again, likely well outside of anything realistic to achieve as that level of R&D is probably all going into DSMC3 and beyond. Media issue I think is a wash, but I understand the concern. The anamorphic playback bug, which I have yet to experience, should be looked at. Might be an easy fix. Pogos and compatibility of newer tech to DSMC2 for a company like SmallHD is likely not something to pursue. However, perhaps an adapter of some sort, even still that would be rough. More EVF control would be nice, but again, many people using them for years without a headache. Can't imagine more fool control work being done as RED Control is far more robust built on RCP2.

TL;DR

Actual feature requests:
- 1.5X and likely 1.8X anamorphic support
- more control over brightness/contrast of the EVF

Firmware Bug Investigations
- Playback with anamorphic

Other considerations
- Some forward knowledge on service and support of DSMC2 bodies, I suspect a few years (2-3, perhaps more) hard to tell.
- If there is something to do about MIni-Mags long term.
 
Luka Sanader said:
Realty is that not even DSMC2 owners seams to really care. I have tried but unfortunately we didnt even make a real petition. personally i can say that i got fed up with all of it and i sold my Monstro for peanuts. I am deeply disappointed with Red and i will never ever trust them again.
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Buying a Red nowadays is just an option if you're an owner/self-operator making a good living with your work and if you'll get your money back in 2-3 years max, whatever the camera. If you're making feature films, well, it's wiser to rent. And while you're at it, just do like everyone else and rent an Arri. Or a Canon for documentary work. Your clients will be happy, so will you.
 
Kristin Stewart said:
Buying a Red nowadays is just an option if you're an owner/self-operator making a good living with your work and if you'll get your money back in 2-3 years max, whatever the camera. If you're making feature films, well, it's wiser to rent. And while you're at it, just do like everyone else and rent an Arri. Or a Canon for documentary work. Your clients will be happy, so will you.
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well... i got in to DSMC2 in the beginning. first full priced Helium, then Epic-W Helium then Monochrom and Monstro. 5 years and 3 features on Red later as well as bunch of other projects i think i have a good insight how that wheel turns. My first Helium i have managed to pay out with in of the first year and 50% of that was actually rental. Only Red that never made me a money was Monchrom brain that i have purchased for a project that didnt happend. Realty simply changed. Clients dont want reds any more, Red rentals are reduced to Komodo. New camera is really inexpensive and of course no one wants to deal with "old" reds. On top of that Red is devaluating what ever life is left in DSMC2. that is the realty

I own Mini LF and in many way i feel same way as i was feeling Helium in 2018: I can offer it to client, people want it, camera rents when i am not shooting and you own something that people respect. I was really interested in XL as i know that sensor well and actually loved Monsto... but after all the trouble i have lived with owning reds for this many yers and the fact that i have lost trust in Red i decided not to go to XL and i got rid of all the DSMC2 things i had. end of story.

Only thing form Red that interests me now is Komodo Monochrom and that is about maximum money that i am willing to invest in Red.
 
I am a former RED owner starting with the deposit for the Red One. I sold my Epic Dragon a few years ago when it didn't get much use anymore. Since then I used mirrorless cameras but now I am looking around again for a more serious camera.

These kind of discussions do influence my buying decision. RED used to advertise with 'Obsolescence Obsolete' but it seems they have since moved away from that idea.
 
sander kamp said:
I am a former RED owner starting with the deposit for the Red One. I sold my Epic Dragon a few years ago when it didn't get much use anymore. Since then I used mirrorless cameras but now I am looking around again for a more serious camera.

These kind of discussions do influence my buying decision. RED used to advertise with 'Obsolescence Obsolete' but it seems they have since moved away from that idea.
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in full honesty 'Obsolescence Obsolete' is a utopia, how could you do that in a modern technological advancing world? No on was expecting Red to offer upgrades form Red One to Raptor XL, but there should be a middle ground. Look at Arri its still supporting Alexa Classic. Red had good porduct, good initiative but its clear now that they are hi end consumer electronics company and that real focus now is pushing the Technology not offering real professional solution for motion picture industry.
Let me back it up: Open Arri's "Configuration overview Catalog " and you will see pages and pages of differant solutions for want is basically 4 cameras. Go to red and you will see pages and pages about technologies, R3D, IPP2, HDR and then you will have a EVF that you cant adjust and propitiatory accessories that are sub standard in every way but you cant use anything else because Red is blocking it. To be honest things have improved with DSMC3 as Red dropped ball on the media and monitors and at least you can go and by normal media. But this is a step tawards DSLR market and prosumer solutions not in tho the right direction.

I think that they dotn care about us any more, Komodo is selling as hot cakes. Red have found there spot under the sun and probably in year or to it will start selling licences for Compressed Raw to other manufacturers until Apple buys them.
I know one thing and that is that i am not giving them one more dollar of my money... OK maybe just Komod monochrom :)
 
I think the idea behind 'Obsolescence Obsolete' was that you bought a camera that was future proof, that had enough resolution and dynamic range that you could shoot with it professionally for a long time. And in a way that's what they originally did. The Epic cameras are heavy and clunky by today's standards, but with sufficient light the image Is still great. But now they are being made obsolete by not being able to buy media anymore, or in other words by a software lock on the camera that prevents it from using other media, which is exactly the opposite from 'Obsolensce Obsolete'.

This is essentially a right to repair discussion. Forcing customers to buy new hardware by not providing software upgrades or tools to do repairs or upgrades.
 
Anybody going to NAB and asking them directly the desire to have open media and fixed bugs on DSMC2 ? Or how they feel about their DSMC2 lives and their media ? Since we didn't had any... any news from RED ?
 
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