omg YOU ARE KILLIN ME!!!! Can I have an address to send the bill please?
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omg YOU ARE KILLIN ME!!!! Can I have an address to send the bill please?
androbot2084
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So what high definition video camera does GuyB use to shoot concerts with today ?
Dave Sucsy
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Hi Jim. I just now found out about RED and am hopeful and excited.
My use of DSLR cameras and equipment includes "large format" style highly detailed scenics and landscapes (calendars, puzzles, etc.), "medium format" style travel photos for brochures & magazine advertising; and "35mm" style editorial and people photos for assignment magazine articles and various stock advertising use.
RED offers the hope of a break from antiquated paradigms and determination to ignore its customers (as do your competitors).
Here are some simple (and not-so-simple) requests that I have been asking your competitors for, for the past 4-5 years:
· Simple mirror lockup (or eliminate the mirror?)
I am always switching quickly between handheld and tripod use. In tripod mode, I am pursuing maximum resolution, detail, and depth-of-field. This requires absolute minimum camera movement and therefore mirror lockup. Canon's onerous system for setting mirror lockup by multiple button presses is a severe handicap and causes many missed shots. The best solution I can think of here would be something like a simple IR remote with 2 buttons. Press one button to put the mirror up, and the other button to trip the shutter. This would work without having to change menu settings or the mode dial on top. A partial press of the regular shutter release on the camera would automatically put the mirror back down, and revert the camera back to normal shutter release operation.
· Simple infrared remote shutter release (as is available for 300,350,400D series)
An inexpensive IR remote can do multiple duty as a shake-free cable release, a mirror lockup device (see above), and a short-range remote release. What if I want to use myself as a "model" in a shot? With my 5D or 1Ds2 I need to set the self-timer and run like crazy. But with my 350D I just use my IR release. This makes no sense. I don't understand why I can't have the same convenience features (on my very expensive cameras) that are found on the lowest end consumer cameras.
· Fewer, and less severe, Bayer color artifacts
(a one or two pixel line against a background of another color, takes on the color of the background, example tree branches against a blue sky become dark blue branches)
Bayer does ok in resolving shades of gray, but has real trouble in creating high-quality high-resolution color - especially where the color gradation is subtle and/or the lighting is low contrast.
Also, I have way too much trouble fighting with color fringing and chromatic aberration. I suspect that this may be an interaction between lens problems and Bayer artifacts. I never had these problems working with large format film and apochromatic lenses.
· Integrated GPS sensor, and position stamp on every frame (or at least the option to do so).
This is as important or more important than a date-timestamp. (Also, it would eliminate the constant re-setting of the camera clock whenever I change time zones.) This would be a HUGE help in forensic work, journalism, and even in travel and scenic stock work where constant travel is involved. These are all places that DSLR cameras are highly used. The only place that GPS stamp might not help is in studio work, and I suspect that studio work represents a smaller percentage of DSLR use.
In my work, I do primarily scenic and travel photos. I then upload these files to my office where the files have IPTC and keyword metadata added that specifies the subject matter and exact location. Now I must use a separate voice recorder (except when using a point-&-shoot or a 1Ds2) and dictate a description of the photo and the location, including the GPS coordinates. This is clearly something that the camera could/should easily do. GPS chips are small and cheap, and the camera's alloy body might be a good antenna. I (and I believe most of us) would like this feature integrated rather than as an add-on gadget that is cumbersome, bulky, and easy to break and lose.
· Voice memo capability on all DSLRs (as is found on almost every $100 digicam)
By far, the best way to attach memos to image files is with sound note files (other than embedded IPTC metadata). These notes go to the editors, keywording people, etc., when the files are processed, edited, and IPTC metadata'd. Almost all pros need them, and usually a lot more than mass-consumers do. I don't understand why I can't have the same convenience features (on my expensive cameras: 5D,50D,450D) that are found on the lowest end consumer cameras. There is one overriding determining factor in choosing equipment: productivity. Voice memo improves productivity.
· Integrated small speaker to hear voice memo playback (as is found on almost every $100 digicam)
This is possible to do without the feedback of a playback speaker, but the speaker is just a very helpful tool in this process.
· Built-in popup flash.
Pros that use 1D 5D type cameras don't need the convenience of fill-flash, but 450D users do?
Yeah, right!
· Auto Depth-of-field focus function
For critical sharpness and depth-of-field, this is extremely important. The Canon 1Ds had it and even the 300D had it. There is no better and easier way to set optimum focus and aperture than to let the camera do it. The user would autofocus on the nearest and farthest points that must be critically sharp and then let the camera set the focus and aperture, or just simply the focus point. This should probably have parameter settings in the menu to set the acceptable circle of confusion based on intended final output size -- maybe even just 3 settings: newspaper/small, good quality/medium size, and critical high-end quality/large.
· Viewfinder at bottom of camera instead of top (to avoid smashing nose into back of camera)
It baffles me why something so simple has not yet been done. The current pervasive design smashes the photographer's nose into the back of the camera, smudging the LCD screen (at a minimum) and sometimes even pressing and changing various setting buttons. I would GLADLY pay a few dollars extra for my camera (to pay the patent holder) so that I can have a more ergonomically correct, efficient, and comfortable camera.
· Live view, but with autofocus active and a positionable LCD screen.
This, again, is a feature that is available on some digicams. There are many circumstances when this would be extremely useful: whether for overhead, or low angle shooting, or for various macro and tight-quarter work.
And for future consideration:
· Good performance at higher ISO settings (25,000) so that camera can be used in normal room lighting with enough shutter speed and depth of field for good sharp photos.
· Better image quality in partial spectrum lighting (such as home tungsten and various fluorescent and gas vapor lights)
· voice recognition to put basic information into the IPTC description field. (location, city, state, description, keywords)
Some traditions that I am willing to break with:
Interchangeable lenses: Too much stuff to carry, too much time lost in changing lenses, too much dirt introduced into the camera. A super-high quality permanent 20mm-400mm f4 IS would be nice.
I would be glad to sell all of my Canon lenses, as they are albatrosses. Some perform ok, none great. None are nearly as good as my old view camera apo lenses.
Mirror: The mirror is ridiculous if there is some way to eliminate it. But we need an optical viewfinder. I cannot possibly imagine that an electronic viewfinder could ever be good enough.
Thank you for considering my comments and requests. I believe that these are features that would be desired and appreciated by a large majority of your intended customer base, would make them loyal, and would help increase your market share, sales, and strengthen your position as a leader in the field.
And thanks for giving us hope!
Best regards,
Dave Sucsy
My use of DSLR cameras and equipment includes "large format" style highly detailed scenics and landscapes (calendars, puzzles, etc.), "medium format" style travel photos for brochures & magazine advertising; and "35mm" style editorial and people photos for assignment magazine articles and various stock advertising use.
RED offers the hope of a break from antiquated paradigms and determination to ignore its customers (as do your competitors).
Here are some simple (and not-so-simple) requests that I have been asking your competitors for, for the past 4-5 years:
· Simple mirror lockup (or eliminate the mirror?)
I am always switching quickly between handheld and tripod use. In tripod mode, I am pursuing maximum resolution, detail, and depth-of-field. This requires absolute minimum camera movement and therefore mirror lockup. Canon's onerous system for setting mirror lockup by multiple button presses is a severe handicap and causes many missed shots. The best solution I can think of here would be something like a simple IR remote with 2 buttons. Press one button to put the mirror up, and the other button to trip the shutter. This would work without having to change menu settings or the mode dial on top. A partial press of the regular shutter release on the camera would automatically put the mirror back down, and revert the camera back to normal shutter release operation.
· Simple infrared remote shutter release (as is available for 300,350,400D series)
An inexpensive IR remote can do multiple duty as a shake-free cable release, a mirror lockup device (see above), and a short-range remote release. What if I want to use myself as a "model" in a shot? With my 5D or 1Ds2 I need to set the self-timer and run like crazy. But with my 350D I just use my IR release. This makes no sense. I don't understand why I can't have the same convenience features (on my very expensive cameras) that are found on the lowest end consumer cameras.
· Fewer, and less severe, Bayer color artifacts
(a one or two pixel line against a background of another color, takes on the color of the background, example tree branches against a blue sky become dark blue branches)
Bayer does ok in resolving shades of gray, but has real trouble in creating high-quality high-resolution color - especially where the color gradation is subtle and/or the lighting is low contrast.
Also, I have way too much trouble fighting with color fringing and chromatic aberration. I suspect that this may be an interaction between lens problems and Bayer artifacts. I never had these problems working with large format film and apochromatic lenses.
· Integrated GPS sensor, and position stamp on every frame (or at least the option to do so).
This is as important or more important than a date-timestamp. (Also, it would eliminate the constant re-setting of the camera clock whenever I change time zones.) This would be a HUGE help in forensic work, journalism, and even in travel and scenic stock work where constant travel is involved. These are all places that DSLR cameras are highly used. The only place that GPS stamp might not help is in studio work, and I suspect that studio work represents a smaller percentage of DSLR use.
In my work, I do primarily scenic and travel photos. I then upload these files to my office where the files have IPTC and keyword metadata added that specifies the subject matter and exact location. Now I must use a separate voice recorder (except when using a point-&-shoot or a 1Ds2) and dictate a description of the photo and the location, including the GPS coordinates. This is clearly something that the camera could/should easily do. GPS chips are small and cheap, and the camera's alloy body might be a good antenna. I (and I believe most of us) would like this feature integrated rather than as an add-on gadget that is cumbersome, bulky, and easy to break and lose.
· Voice memo capability on all DSLRs (as is found on almost every $100 digicam)
By far, the best way to attach memos to image files is with sound note files (other than embedded IPTC metadata). These notes go to the editors, keywording people, etc., when the files are processed, edited, and IPTC metadata'd. Almost all pros need them, and usually a lot more than mass-consumers do. I don't understand why I can't have the same convenience features (on my expensive cameras: 5D,50D,450D) that are found on the lowest end consumer cameras. There is one overriding determining factor in choosing equipment: productivity. Voice memo improves productivity.
· Integrated small speaker to hear voice memo playback (as is found on almost every $100 digicam)
This is possible to do without the feedback of a playback speaker, but the speaker is just a very helpful tool in this process.
· Built-in popup flash.
Pros that use 1D 5D type cameras don't need the convenience of fill-flash, but 450D users do?
Yeah, right!
· Auto Depth-of-field focus function
For critical sharpness and depth-of-field, this is extremely important. The Canon 1Ds had it and even the 300D had it. There is no better and easier way to set optimum focus and aperture than to let the camera do it. The user would autofocus on the nearest and farthest points that must be critically sharp and then let the camera set the focus and aperture, or just simply the focus point. This should probably have parameter settings in the menu to set the acceptable circle of confusion based on intended final output size -- maybe even just 3 settings: newspaper/small, good quality/medium size, and critical high-end quality/large.
· Viewfinder at bottom of camera instead of top (to avoid smashing nose into back of camera)
It baffles me why something so simple has not yet been done. The current pervasive design smashes the photographer's nose into the back of the camera, smudging the LCD screen (at a minimum) and sometimes even pressing and changing various setting buttons. I would GLADLY pay a few dollars extra for my camera (to pay the patent holder) so that I can have a more ergonomically correct, efficient, and comfortable camera.
· Live view, but with autofocus active and a positionable LCD screen.
This, again, is a feature that is available on some digicams. There are many circumstances when this would be extremely useful: whether for overhead, or low angle shooting, or for various macro and tight-quarter work.
And for future consideration:
· Good performance at higher ISO settings (25,000) so that camera can be used in normal room lighting with enough shutter speed and depth of field for good sharp photos.
· Better image quality in partial spectrum lighting (such as home tungsten and various fluorescent and gas vapor lights)
· voice recognition to put basic information into the IPTC description field. (location, city, state, description, keywords)
Some traditions that I am willing to break with:
Interchangeable lenses: Too much stuff to carry, too much time lost in changing lenses, too much dirt introduced into the camera. A super-high quality permanent 20mm-400mm f4 IS would be nice.
I would be glad to sell all of my Canon lenses, as they are albatrosses. Some perform ok, none great. None are nearly as good as my old view camera apo lenses.
Mirror: The mirror is ridiculous if there is some way to eliminate it. But we need an optical viewfinder. I cannot possibly imagine that an electronic viewfinder could ever be good enough.
Thank you for considering my comments and requests. I believe that these are features that would be desired and appreciated by a large majority of your intended customer base, would make them loyal, and would help increase your market share, sales, and strengthen your position as a leader in the field.
And thanks for giving us hope!
Best regards,
Dave Sucsy
Joseph Ward
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You almost were the first to take a whole page. 
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Jannard
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I did NOT shoot the Motorola spot. That was produced by Motorola and we had nothing to do with it. That was done just a few years ago.
Jim
Jason Ing
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I liked the other scifi-ish spots the best (the Motorala one was pretty good too).
Looked great.
Looked great.
Tom Lowe
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Well, with the 1DsM2, for example, Canon could have offered a sensor and digic processor upgrade, I think. All the other components should still work. Replacing a shutter is a not a huge deal.
Canon just does not have this mindset of offering upgrades. Jim is really pushing this idea.
Currently an EX1 but really its lens doesn't have the reach you really need in a camera for concerts. I'd prefer an EX3 with a decent reach 1/2" or 2/3" HD lens attached.
It didn't quite read well sorry. What I meant was, with what I have seen of Scarlet to date, it is not a camera that I would have any desire to purchase for wedding, concert or any other special event production work.
Scarlets lens for a start is totally inadequate. Especially for concerts you need long reaching lens and my EX1s lens isn't long enough, the info I read has Scarlets lens at something like 8x? Sorry but thats not going to work.
Then you have codec choices and bit rates. Once again, only from what I read (there is no product), there isn't going to be any long run codec choices. Its all about the quality using REDRAW, which is great for many, but not for concerts. The only way to get over the limited lens would be to lock one off close to stage, but now you have terrible recording time. Some concerts go easily 2+ hours without intermission. How long will Scarlet be able to record without a card change?
With weddings, its also going in the wrong direction. Moving from a smaller ENG mount camera to a handycam EX1 is bad enough, I can't think how unstable a hand held camera is going to look when not on a tripod or you hold your breath to hold it by hand... Weddings are way too much run and gun, at least they are around here.
I also do an occasional music video. This is where I would totally look at Scarlet as a good option. In the end it is only 2/3" type though, I'd rather 3x 1/2" than 1x 2/3" and for shallow DOF though I'd rather my D3 had a decent video mode (aka NOT D-Movie). Throw the 85mm 1.4 and it and you have a mm or two DOF to play with... I'm not that interested in these rotating ground glass adaptors though, they are a trade off, as is putting a Nikon lens straight on say an EX3 where suddently everything is 7x and you can't get anything wide etc...
Does that help you understand what I was trying to say?
To what end? It wouldn't matter what I showed you I would only recieve deflamatory comments from you and the other fan boys. Just reading the sarcastic request is enough to see your childish attitude up front...
If I could enter my web site for Jim to see without showing the trolls I happily would.
ThydNostrum
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When Jim came out with RED ONE it was a sea changing product. 35 mm sensor, PL mount, 4K, $17.5K. Yes. It was revolutionary.
When Nikon came out with D90 it was a sea changing product. It is revolutionary. 35 mm DSLR with Live view and HD video. Yes. It was revolutionary.
There are some DSLR's that transmit photos by internet to owner. That is a sea changing product.
Canon is experimenting with pixelless sensors. when they comeout with such a sensor, it would be a sea changing product.
Now, what could Jim bring new and revolutionary?
More pixels do not mean much any more. Sony has 28 MP already.
Larger sensor size will make the 35mm lenses unusable.
Price may be. Size may be. In these areas nobody can beat Sony, Canon etc.
By the time Jim's DSLR comes out, we will already have 28MP 35 mm DSLRS with Live view and 4K video, for under $500 from Sony, Canon, Nikon, etc.
Unless Jim has in mind some unique sea changing revolutionary features, Jim's DSLRs would be drowned out by established companies.
On gthe Other hand, Jim could make RED One a real success like iPhone if he concentrate on that one product.
( RED ONE will take a severe beating if Sony comes out with EX5 in 2009, with 2/3" sensor, and 2K output for under $6000.)
Michael Schrengohst
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Waaaaaaannnnnnnnnnnnnhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Cyrus David
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Tools you need
Tools you need
Hi Guy,
If you had some experience (like years in the biz) you would have been using VHS (cause you were starting out back in the 80's) or perhaps 3/4 inch (cause you had money and bigger budget weddings) back in those days...
Now let's say along comes Digibeta in 1981 and you state that Digibeta is too "high end" (read expensive) for your market. Sure, I get your point...but if "I" had the money (and was getting married again) I would stop complaining and find the cinematographer who could do my wedding in Red...the quality alone would survive a lifetime (unlike VHS), let alone the good chance that the cinematography talent would be there too.
Jim is killing tape and improving quality (yes, you may argue there's some more to go but just take a look at the last year...doesn't that just blow your mind?...and don't forget the bang for the buck...unprecedented).
..even future event and wedding cinematographers will have to adapt or find some other career. I haven't seen one film still camera, not one, at several weddings this summer. Have you? All digital...even the hassleblads.
Perhaps if you "adapt" to the trend of the future you will be able to add value for your customers and make more money at the same time.
...I wonder where all those one-copy VHS wedding videotapes from the 80's are these days.
Cheers,
Not a fanboy of old technology.
cd
Tools you need
Hi Guy,
If you had some experience (like years in the biz) you would have been using VHS (cause you were starting out back in the 80's) or perhaps 3/4 inch (cause you had money and bigger budget weddings) back in those days...
Now let's say along comes Digibeta in 1981 and you state that Digibeta is too "high end" (read expensive) for your market. Sure, I get your point...but if "I" had the money (and was getting married again) I would stop complaining and find the cinematographer who could do my wedding in Red...the quality alone would survive a lifetime (unlike VHS), let alone the good chance that the cinematography talent would be there too.
Jim is killing tape and improving quality (yes, you may argue there's some more to go but just take a look at the last year...doesn't that just blow your mind?...and don't forget the bang for the buck...unprecedented).
..even future event and wedding cinematographers will have to adapt or find some other career. I haven't seen one film still camera, not one, at several weddings this summer. Have you? All digital...even the hassleblads.
Perhaps if you "adapt" to the trend of the future you will be able to add value for your customers and make more money at the same time.
...I wonder where all those one-copy VHS wedding videotapes from the 80's are these days.
Cheers,
Not a fanboy of old technology.
cd
Cyrus David
Active member
I bumped into some students shooting a film (with a 16mm film camera) and thought I'd bring up the topic of scarlet and they all turned around and started talking about getting one next year...partly to shoot their films without having to book and wait for the cameras. I was surprised they even knew the name scarlet...these kids get it.
I'm guessing that they (the students) don't individually own, even the cheap 16mm cameras from russia, because of the cost of stock and processing...and the fact they will have limited projection resources to show their film reels. Perhaps they telecine them to DVD but...why go through all that analog workflow?
I would bet that thousands of schools will be purchasing dozens each when the scarlet comes out. It will save them tons of money.
Cheers,
cd
I'm guessing that they (the students) don't individually own, even the cheap 16mm cameras from russia, because of the cost of stock and processing...and the fact they will have limited projection resources to show their film reels. Perhaps they telecine them to DVD but...why go through all that analog workflow?
I would bet that thousands of schools will be purchasing dozens each when the scarlet comes out. It will save them tons of money.
Cheers,
cd
radfilm
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What I would Love this camera to offer
What I would Love this camera to offer
I love cameras, all cameras. Different formats and lenses. An awesome breakthrough DSLR camera would have these things:
1. Able to work with various lenses - Leica,Canon,Nikon and Medium format
2. Able to use filmbacks - 35mm,120mm,4X5
3 Able to work with different digital backs , interchangable,
upgradeable from 12MP to the highest available (based on price) made by
RED
I guess the big question would be who the does the camera cater to ? Pros or Amateur photographers ?
This is an exciting development and I look forward to watching the forum for more info.
Cheers
What I would Love this camera to offer
I love cameras, all cameras. Different formats and lenses. An awesome breakthrough DSLR camera would have these things:
1. Able to work with various lenses - Leica,Canon,Nikon and Medium format
2. Able to use filmbacks - 35mm,120mm,4X5
3 Able to work with different digital backs , interchangable,
upgradeable from 12MP to the highest available (based on price) made by
RED
I guess the big question would be who the does the camera cater to ? Pros or Amateur photographers ?
This is an exciting development and I look forward to watching the forum for more info.
Cheers
Raphael Varandas
Well-known member
Cheers...welcome Redbaby...
lubomir.zvolensky
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> By the time Jim's DSLR comes out, we will already have 28MP 35 mm DSLRS with Live view and 4K video, for under $500 from Sony, Canon, Nikon, etc.
are you talking about $500 US dollars and 2009 - didn't you mean $5000 ? I bet nothing like $500 will happen, sorry. Those companies are not able and were not able to bring you ANYTHING for $500 at all so far - please stop dreaming about 4K for $500 and NEXT YEAR. Or... what do you smoke? I want some!
> RED ONE will take a severe beating if Sony comes out with EX5 in 2009, with 2/3" sensor, and 2K output for under $6000.
once again, are you serious? Go and convince Peter Jackson, Peter Holland, Steven Soderbergh, Doug Liman, Tony Richmond and other big guys they don't need RED1 and they really need EX5! Man, 4K of red one is totally different beast than 2k of anything else!
Check what Sony has done this week - announcement of "PRO" cameras, oh yes FX1000 for $3000... sorry but this one doesn't compare even to Scarlet. And EVEN IF Sony will release whatever in 2009 for $6000, I really doubt it will have all that Scarlet is gonna have for half the price. Camera you are talking about - 2/3" sensor, 2k output, serious dynamic range, serious quality and handling, serious lens, will be worth $2000 in 2009. It will not have RAW, it will not have 36MB/s up to 100MB/s throughput, it will not have 120fps/180fps, XLR inputs, etc, etc.
Oh yes, it will be HDV tape based, and 1440x1080 "2K" tapes with 25Mbit/s = 3MB/s datarate are very cheap - seriously!
sarcasm off...
are you talking about $500 US dollars and 2009 - didn't you mean $5000 ? I bet nothing like $500 will happen, sorry. Those companies are not able and were not able to bring you ANYTHING for $500 at all so far - please stop dreaming about 4K for $500 and NEXT YEAR. Or... what do you smoke? I want some!
> RED ONE will take a severe beating if Sony comes out with EX5 in 2009, with 2/3" sensor, and 2K output for under $6000.
once again, are you serious? Go and convince Peter Jackson, Peter Holland, Steven Soderbergh, Doug Liman, Tony Richmond and other big guys they don't need RED1 and they really need EX5! Man, 4K of red one is totally different beast than 2k of anything else!
Check what Sony has done this week - announcement of "PRO" cameras, oh yes FX1000 for $3000... sorry but this one doesn't compare even to Scarlet. And EVEN IF Sony will release whatever in 2009 for $6000, I really doubt it will have all that Scarlet is gonna have for half the price. Camera you are talking about - 2/3" sensor, 2k output, serious dynamic range, serious quality and handling, serious lens, will be worth $2000 in 2009. It will not have RAW, it will not have 36MB/s up to 100MB/s throughput, it will not have 120fps/180fps, XLR inputs, etc, etc.
Oh yes, it will be HDV tape based, and 1440x1080 "2K" tapes with 25Mbit/s = 3MB/s datarate are very cheap - seriously!
sarcasm off...
Tom Lowe
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I have successfully traced GuyB's network IP addresss... to the Sony PR headquarters building in New York.
Raphael Varandas
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