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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

DSLR-killer...

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VizPictures said:
Isn't it too early for the announcement? Won't that leave too much time for the competition to react?
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to react to what? To non-existing product without any details or specification? To react to 48mm x 36mm backlight sensor with almost perfectly noise-free iso25600 which doesn't exist yet? To react to distortion-free stabilized superglass, 600mm equivalent in 35mm world, T2.8, going to be sold for $2999 ? To react to 30fps 36Mpix more-than-full-frame-super-uber-DSLR combined with 2K/3K digital cinema camera shooting indefinitely 240fps 3K 3072x1728 [=5.3Mpix] costing $3999 ?

"the competition" does not know what to react to. There is nothing to react to... yet. But I hope RED Warriors will catch 'em all totally unprepared... as usually. I can't help myself but I still do NOT see a single competetive reaction to RED ONE, I still can't find a single 4K camera for $17.5k not speaking about any other specs...

GO SH00T 'EM JIM!
 
This is a dream come true! Wait, where am I? I'm tapping heels of my magic slippers together right now. No... seriously, I am.
 
Sounds very interesting - I'm always glad to see technology being pushed. I'll be honest that I'm going to take the bold marketing statements with a grain of salt until I'm proven wrong. I'm anxious to hear the announcement and hope I can revisit this post and appologize for not buying into the hype right away.

One very important thing is the cost of the system needs to be kept in the realm of current DSLR's or your only client will be NASA. I hope it's a complete still system which can utilize strobes and speedlights, as well as have a truely wide range of autofocus lenses like those in Canon or Nikon's catalogue.

shooter said:
I am already using my RED ONE as a DSLR. I still cannot understand why anyone would rely on timing to "capture the moment" in fashion, sports, nature or most other photography when you can just shoot the entire shoot in print resolution and then forward frame-by-frame in RedCine allowing the client to pick the "shot" they like best. Export as TIFF, open in Photoshop, color correct, convert to CMYK and send it to press.
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I have serious issues with statements like this. You are seriously undermining a very good skill set that separates professionals from "spray and prayers". A skilled still photographer can rely on timing and capture the moment in one or two frames rather than a hundred a second. They can prep & edit that one frame and have it ready to present to the client before a videographer can get the video downloaded to a working drive let alone find the frame sequence. As far as showing the client a huge range of repetitive unfinished images, I'd personally much rather have control over what images they are presented with to ensure they never see anything but polished results. Less time in post production and a dramatically lower cost of doing business. Quality over quantity, IMO.
 
JoePhoto said:
I have serious issues with statements like this. You are seriously undermining a very good skill set that separates professionals from "spray and prayers". A skilled still photographer can rely on timing and capture the moment in one or two frames rather than a hundred a second. They can prep & edit that one frame and have it ready to present to the client before a videographer can get the video downloaded to a working drive let alone find the frame sequence. As far as showing the client a huge range of repetitive unfinished images, I'd personally much rather have control over what images they are presented with to ensure they never see anything but polished results. Less time in post production and a dramatically lower cost of doing business. Quality over quantity, IMO.
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timing doesnt have anything to do with it anymore.. you dont need timing with RED... a picture viewer doesnt care if it was picked out from 23 more frames per second or shot on a whim.. as long as they have the picture they are happy..
 
JoePhoto said:
A skilled still photographer can rely on timing and capture the moment in one or two frames rather than a hundred a second. They can prep & edit that one frame and have it ready to present to the client before a videographer can get the video downloaded to a working drive let alone find the frame sequence. As far as showing the client a huge range of repetitive unfinished images, I'd personally much rather have control over what images they are presented with to ensure they never see anything but polished results. Less time in post production and a dramatically lower cost of doing business. Quality over quantity, IMO.
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I see it as a new approach, with it pros and cons. The talent "to capture the moment" will still be required. But as we have to deliver stills as well Red allows us to deliver what we were actually shooting. This is the fulfillment of a desire.

When starting into a new doc last week, a very personal intimate story, by exporting the stills from a test interview for viewing it was a great help for me as well to get focussed on the non-verbal expressions of the protagonist. I think opposed to limiting down something, Red instead is always and ever opening up new possibilities - it is enhancing creativity, not limiting it.

But Red is changing the business. Societies need this spirit. Hopefully Jim will get into car manufacturing as well some day - our concept of mobility needs a revolution as well :construction:
Just my 2c.

Fritz
 
Zakaree said:
timing doesnt have anything to do with it anymore.. you dont need timing with RED... a picture viewer doesnt care if it was picked out from 23 more frames per second or shot on a whim.. as long as they have the picture they are happy..
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I disagree, still & motion photography are cousins not siblings. They require wholly different approaches to attain pro caliber results. Not to mention the completely different use of shutter speed/angle. Unless you are specifically looking to capture a series for use as multiple images a "spray and pray" approach is as creatively deadening as "Let it roll" was on DV. There is an urgency and a creativity that is imbued by the "Decisive Moment". If you don't believe me ask Mr. Cartier Bresson.
 
When Scarlet was to be announced I was expecting it to be more of a DSLR design style and I voiced that opinion in the old Scarlet section of reduser. I knew a lot of people would like that concept. Scarlet's design was not to be DSLR style but I wasn't wrong in my thinking. That is what the future holds, the union of stills and motion in one camera. In my opinion, yes, siblings not cousins, they are born from the same mother, image capturing. One is just faster than the other. I just got the D90 and I am excited by the possibilities Red will bring with its DSLR. If only time could go by faster.
 
Evin Grant said:
Also, think of how much control you give up when you open an image sequence and say "Pick one". They might as well just hire a PA off of Craigs list to shoot it and just fix it in post.
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True "democratization" . . . . . it would make the MBA-style producers of the world very happy. :angry2:

Unfortunately, this is a little too close to reality sometimes.
 
Evin Grant said:
I disagree, still & motion photography are cousins not siblings. They require wholly different approaches to attain pro caliber results. Not to mention the completely different use of shutter speed/angle. Unless you are specifically looking to capture a series for use as multiple images a "spray and pray" approach is as creatively deadening as "Let it roll" was on DV. There is an urgency and a creativity that is imbued by the "Decisive Moment". If you don't believe me ask Mr. Cartier Bresson.
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Evin, you`re absolutely spot on with this.
You can`t compare them and anyone doing it or even using a red one or epic for a photo shoot can`t be taken serious in my opinion.

It`s already a major pain in the ass doing digital film shoots since directors and even actors don`t take the "rolling" as seriously as it used to be. The amount of useless stock "exploded" since DV came out.

I know a german record label and their "dv-tape-archive", I once even had "the pleasure" to edit something for them... based on my obervation from that project I estimate that there must be a wasted investment of 5000-10000 euros in DV tapes laying around filled with pure garbage. Heck, I`ve seen takes of 20 minutes length were the camera was aimed at two guys reading books...
 
JoePhoto said:
I have serious issues with statements like this. You are seriously undermining a very good skill set that separates professionals from "spray and prayers". A skilled still photographer can rely on timing and capture the moment in one or two frames rather than a hundred a second.
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I definitely agree with your "quality over quantity" but I'm sure you understand that it's quite difficult sometimes to catch the absolutely most precise moment with 6fps and even 10fps, and absolutely impossible with 3fps. Take, for example, NASCAR racing, recent Olympics event etc. You could be the second best photographer in the world and you won't catch the moment with "traditional" photogear... and I'll have it, just because I was shooting 100fps with RED. You will never catch the "contact" moment of crash in car race when first bumper is starting to be broken by second one... things are happening cruelly fast.

Oh yes, for studio work, portraits, architecture and such, I would not prefer RED [yet, maybe in a year or two situation will change]. Definitely, it is VERY VERY nice to see merger between two very different areas : still photography and moving pictures. We need more stuff like D90, the new 5D whatever-the-name-will-be, RED ONE [where you are able to pull out single frames and use them as photography!] and hereby announced new kind of DSCM or what it was :) I really like price of Sony A900, full-frame, 24Mpix new-generation sensor... I really like price of RED ONE, Scarlet and I'm looking forward for this announcement to materialize.
 
"Heck, I`ve seen takes of 20 minutes length were the camera was aimed at two guys reading books..."

How was the audio?

I was editing some crap that a client shot on DV the other day. They at least had a lav mike thrown on the person. Go to the last interview. No audio.
They ask how can I fix it? I say re-shoot...they ask if I can put sub-titles in...I said sure! Who can read lips? They are re-shooting next week.
 
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