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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Dragon upgrades

Come to think of it (I know most on here will be furious because of cost considerations) it makes sense to have Dragon and Weapon existing side by side. Dragon with the smaller body and Weapon a little larger with XLR's and additional stuff built in. It will probably allow Red to appeal to the Alexa user base who have been complaining for years about its ergonomics. It may also allow a more robust build quality.
 
Joshua Hoareau said:
Hey Jarred. With this news it's looking like there is probably going to be a big influx of Epic MX users (like myself) looking to upgrade to Dragon before April. If there are heaps of upgrades, is there a chance the upgrade price may go down due to the increased volume of Dragon upgrades? Thanks :)
Click to expand...

Yes indeed... but that actual number depends on how many do it.. and we wont know exactly till NAB, which is how the whole "if you upgrade to Dragon before NAB we are giving you an extra extra credit" came from. If enough people get their upgrade in before NAB then the lines will be busy enough that the extra credit will likely be close to what the price increase was. We save money you save money. How's that for transparency?
 
Weapon I/O?

phfx_redDragon_JarredNAB2015Tease02.jpg
 
Jarred,

That means if more people decide to go for Dragon before NAB the price for the upgrade goes down like before? If the case, I'll go for Dragon in a beat, then later on for Weapon.
 
Jarred, I'm there!! You got me at credit...ha, ha. Any chance to make up from my poor November fund and low Canadian dollar situation would be HUGE! A second chance to redeem my inability to upgrade before the price jump! YES!!
 
Jarred, would you recommend I hold off until NAB from investing in a new ND set for my matte box? Or is this not relavant to Weapon?

Thanks,
Mike
 
Kemalettin Sert said:
Hope faster minimags on the way too! Current 512Gb Minimag is 200Mb/s ,Codex write speed 730mb/s on 65mm Digital Camera.Which is almost 4 times faster than minimag?
Must beat this!
Click to expand...


They are incapable of compressing their raw data.. so it needs to be 4 x the speed and 10x the size of the Minimag.

That said... of course media will always advance in speed, and we will be there waiting for it when it comes.
 
Hopes for:


  • Upgraded 10 Gbps Ethernet port that allows tethered streaming of RED RAW to a computer for live/realtime grading, quality control, direct recording to RAID storage.
  • Built-in UHD/4K RGB output for monitoring, HDMI 2.0/SDI (6G/12G)
 
Minor but I hope there is no need for 'Module Adapters' anymore. Such an expensive piece that seem to have no purpose. Sure there was a reason but hope the new Weapon won't need an "Extra" part to connect other parts. Then again, maybe it uses the same eco-system of module design. Guess we'll find out.
 
For me this decision is not about money... I'm so satisfied with my Dragons currently and knowing that 99% of my work that gets mastered out is still only a 1/4 of what the camera is actually capable of. The current cameras actual output is complete over kill for majority of my projects... So this is what's making my head spin and asking myself. Do I need it when I already have a few Dragon already that I don't actually use there full potential already. ???
HOWEVER.. Image quality and a few needed features are under the microscope. The new camera I'm praying for alot faster frames rates, More DR, Better higher ISO latitude. Still be small in form and lighter than the current Dragon.

Image clarity and resolution I have no concern with at all, Do I need a larger sensor, seriously... No. Do I need 8k.. No.. We are already riding on the edge of most lenses already.

Regarding my question to Jared about older model SSD's becoming useless:
I've gotten over the fact that Im about to throw a bucket load of older model SSD's in the bin. Thats life, it bugged me for a day or two when I found out the new camera wont take them, but when I looked at how many projects I've shot over the last 4 years with those cards, I'm sure I paid for them ten times over.
But still it's a little annoying... but thats life.

I just wish I could get to the stage of thinking my Dragons needed upgrading. Which.. they don't.

I'm a creature of habit... I'll probably upgrade because I can.

Such minor first world problems :)

I have to congratulate RED for their leading technology. Well done.
 
Florin Danilov said:
Jarred,

That means if more people decide to go for Dragon before NAB the price for the upgrade goes down like before? If the case, I'll go for Dragon in a beat, then later on for Weapon.
Click to expand...

Yes but the price doesn't actually go down, you just get an extra credit of the difference put back on your account. You can use that credit towards an early spot for the weapon upgrade @ NAB if you want, or on accessories etc.
 
Mark,

Just imagine if you had been shooting film the last four years and what that would have cost ! Having said that losing an investment in medis stings. I'll have to put the SSD drives in the same draw as my Red CF cards and Red drives. While extra DR, more sensitivity and speed would occassionally be handy I find its a rare occassion I exceed the Dragon camera's capabilities. I will need to see exactly what the upgrade is and its cost but so far the Red upgrade process has been cheap enough to make it a no brainer. I'm old enough to remember cameras being as expensive as exotic sports cars.
 
Weapon

Weapon

Hi Jarred,

Will the 'Weapon' be available as a new camera in the store immediately on announcement or you will stick to RED EPIX X to Dragon rules...

Thanks

Harcharan
 
Jarred,

That's why I'm upset, confused, frustrated- all of the above. It's the extra $3k to upgrade to dragon post Dec. when a final date for stopping the upgrades was probably known, just not communicated.

It's hard for me to believe that Red didn't know Weapon was in the pipeline...in fact, it's insane to think so. You guys have probably been working (very diligently I'm sure) on this upgrade for a couple quarters, if not years. And that's where the transparency comes in. Red isn't just a regular company. As I said, a lot of people on here, and not those that just use the camera, swear by your gear. Notice I didn't mention a specific product. It's the workflow. The compressed Raw. The ecosystem, etc...People swear by the brand...what "Red" stands for. I not "bitching" and I don't think Adam, or anyone else is. Im just a little pissed (some at myself) that I wasn't able to upgrade to Dragon when I planned- which I was under the impression from your posts regarding the December deadline, would be soon but not six months from the December price increase. I know, things change- that's life. Except it. You mentioned that Epic-to-Dragon upgrades have been going on for around 2 years, and eventually they were going to end...again, I understood this. Yet, if you knew they were going to end when you released Weapon, why the price increase? From $9.5k to +$12k, and then less than two months later hit us with the "oh, and after June '15, no upgrades at all." I (and this is where it gets personal) JUST got my Epic brain 2Q of '14...which means forking over another $10k to go to Dragon aprox 7 months later would have been tough...

So if you knew the hard date of no more conversions, why not tell us last year? You mentioned that the conversion is just too costly to keep workers performing the sensor upgrades from MX-Dragon and was a part of the reason the price went up (volumes go down, economies of scale come into play- I get it). But now, you're saying that the Weapon is coming, it doesn't make since to support both production model conversions, and in all honesty, the Epic is a little dated (5 yrs old) in terms of sensor compared to the Dragon. Yet, no one is doing the conversion to Weapon right now...right? So I missing something in the manufacturing process. Are the workers being let go, and then re-hired after to do the Dragon-to-Weapon upgrades? Or are they still employed, just not doing the MX to Dragon upgrades as much, and therefore cost's have gone up and to compensate you raised the prices.

You know what, don't answer that. Lets assume that your manufacturing process involves some proprietary workflows and therefore you don't want to explain without tipping off some of your competitors- ok, I get it. I still would like to believe that you knew Weapon would be at NAB '15, and therefore, the upgrade from MX-to-Dragon would end around that time...so why not tell us before the December deadline? Why the price increase, then hit us with the hard deadline? With a final date mentioned, volumes would most likely pick back up, tipping the scales back to favor for your profitability...and that's where my problem lies. I can't make sense of the raise in upgrade price, when another upgrade is in the pipeline, and therefore a hard date was known. This is what we call a "short squeeze" for those that didn't buy in and "trust" the upgrade and/or those who couldn't afford to do it within the timeframe given...which again, is just a part of life- I know. I get it. But I, and a lot of others, put Red above that. Your company is giving people a chance to chase their dreams, make a living, do something that wasn't possible before you stepped on the scene. Red is different. It's wasn't about the money. Red isn't a publicly traded company. It's owned by a self-made billionaire who went to USC and dropped out to ride across country on a bike (yeah I know the story). You don't have to answer to investors about raising profits, or hitting benchmarks...your benchmark is the loyal "fanboy" base of people who relentlessly support your vision...and in Weapon's case, blindly.

I love my camera Jarred. I love my Red gear. I love the fact that you guys work tirelessly to give us FREE software updates (something Microsoft has just realized is the key the evolving OS platform and adoption from consumers...something Apple realized a long time ago, and why all of their iOS updates are free, and most OS updates are free or only incremental costs to the consumer with their hardware). I love that fact that people can use your product to make a product, and possibly build a career of their own. But I disagree with how this was handled. Maybe I'm missing something, but from the timeline I've seen, it just doesn't make sense.
 
Jarred Land said:
Yes but the price doesn't actually go down, you just get an extra credit of the difference put back on your account. You can use that credit towards an early spot for the weapon upgrade @ NAB if you want, or on accessories etc.
Click to expand...


fair enough... :)
 
Jarred I really respect your participation in this thread, and I for one appreciate the level of transparency offered.

There aren't many companies out there that could open a line of communication like this to a technology upgrade and actively participate in the discussion.
I am sure others feel as well a lot of your comments are because you care about your customer and your trying to keep as many people at ease as possible, I would say you probably care too much and I hope you haven't taken much of the negativity on.

I am really excited about this, the fact that I might be able to when I can afford to unlock more from the already amazing system I have, how as a everyday red user could that not excite me

can I join the upgrade que yet? Haha
 
Mark Toia said:
I've gotten over the fact that Im about to throw a bucket load of older model SSD's in the bin. Thats life, it bugged me for a day or two when I found out the new camera wont take them,.
Click to expand...

heh heh dont throw them in a bin... Non-Weaponized Dragons will still be alive and well and we will still be selling them so the used market for those older SSDs will be healthy.....

And sorry you missed all the hints and heads up that I have given along the way over the last year about the media change.. Glad though that they have made you money :)
 
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