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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Dragon Upgrade Predictions for Scarlet-X

Theory.

Epic upgrades are going first yeah? Is it possible that Scarlet may receive parts from Epic-X? Could we see Scarlet Dragon similar specs to MX Epic (not the same, obviously - but maybe half?). Probably not. But hell that would be cool.
 
I think there will be at least 24 or 25fps for 5K FF with Dragon upgrade since Epic will do 120 fps at 5K FF. Scarlet has about 20-25% maximum data rate of Epic right now so if Red decide to go to a similar path, it will be still fine.
Of course, if Red decide to put a high speed board, then we will see a little more speed on 5K FF but, in my personal view, it is very unlikely since they need to protect the Epic's territory.
However, for most of us that should be fine and we will probably see at least 48 fps and 25fps with HDRX for 4K to make a justification to upgrade to Dragon. Otherwise, who will upgrade to Dragon?
Similary I think we will get around 100 fps at 2K while Epic will get at least 400 fps at 2K.

If the cost of the upgrade is less than $7000 and the new spec meets my hope, I will definitely buy the upgrade.
 
I really dont think that RED is trying to protect the EPIC.
They are trying to give the Scarlet users the most for what they can afford.

On a side note, I'm very curious to see what they will do with all those EPIC boards when upgrading to Dragon... I wouldn't mind having some sort of an "used boards upgrade", giving us 5k at 25fps on the existing MX sensor in a nice price range.

Would certainly be a shame to throw all those boards away if they could be reused in one way or another...
 
Here is my dragon upgrade prediction chart for both Epic and Scarlet.

web.jpg
 
Jay Kim said:
Here is my dragon upgrade prediction chart for both Epic and Scarlet.

web.jpg
Click to expand...


Jay your 6K specs for Scarlet are sad but very realistic. 4 years later Black Magic proves that 3k for $3k is possible..kinda. We are moving slower than projected so it's hard to determine what these companies are capable of. The good news is that RED has until 2013 to get it right.

I say RED should aim for 60fps and charge $9k here's why....

1. 60fps gives us a buffer to get a Sensor swap 3rd time around (Like Epic) rather than Board & Sensor. Red can Charge Premium $$ (A little under the price of a Scarlet-X) consumers get a new camera.

2. Scarlet-D can break off into a median option that's better fitted with an Epic-X & Epic-D. Scarlet-X & Red One MX go hand in hand for various reasons. Epic-D & Scarlet-D will work better as a pair. Allows more price options for the consumer and productions. Helps keep a competitive rental rate and more flexibility for seamless multi-cam intergration.

3. Competition... No company will be able to compete with such a High Resolution & High Frame Rate, it seems that everyone has caught on this trend (Sony FS700 & F65). This will knock the ball out of the park once again.

60fps @ 6k
96fps @ 4k

Is all I really want..
 
Jay your 6K specs for Scarlet are sad but very realistic. 4 years later Black Magic proves that 3k for $3k is possible..kinda. We are moving slower than projected so it's hard to determine what these companies are capable of. The good news is that RED has until 2013 to get it right.

I say RED should aim for 60fps and charge $9k here's why....

1. 60fps gives us a buffer to get a Sensor swap 3rd time around (Like Epic) rather than Board & Sensor. Red can Charge Premium $$ (A little under the price of a Scarlet-X) consumers get a new camera.

2. Scarlet-D can break off into a median option that's better fitted with an Epic-X & Epic-D. Scarlet-X & Red One MX go hand in hand for various reasons. Epic-D & Scarlet-D will work better as a pair. Allows more price options for the consumer and productions. Helps keep a competitive rental rate and more flexibility for seamless multi-cam intergration.

3. Competition... No company will be able to compete with such a High Resolution & High Frame Rate, it seems that everyone has caught on this trend (Sony FS700 & F65). This will knock the ball out of the park once again.

60fps @ 6k
96fps @ 4k

Is all I really want..
Click to expand...

I think it's kinda too good to be true.
 
Cid J Salcido Uyarra said:
Jay your 6K specs for Scarlet are sad but very realistic. 4 years later Black Magic proves that 3k for $3k is possible..kinda. We are moving slower than projected so it's hard to determine what these companies are capable of. The good news is that RED has until 2013 to get it right.

I say RED should aim for 60fps and charge $9k here's why....

1. 60fps gives us a buffer to get a Sensor swap 3rd time around (Like Epic) rather than Board & Sensor. Red can Charge Premium $$ (A little under the price of a Scarlet-X) consumers get a new camera.

2. Scarlet-D can break off into a median option that's better fitted with an Epic-X & Epic-D. Scarlet-X & Red One MX go hand in hand for various reasons. Epic-D & Scarlet-D will work better as a pair. Allows more price options for the consumer and productions. Helps keep a competitive rental rate and more flexibility for seamless multi-cam intergration.

3. Competition... No company will be able to compete with such a High Resolution & High Frame Rate, it seems that everyone has caught on this trend (Sony FS700 & F65). This will knock the ball out of the park once again.

60fps @ 6k
96fps @ 4k

Is all I really want..
Click to expand...

LOL... Te times they are a-changng.

All I really want is 6k @ 60 fps...

Hahahahahaha!
 
Gunleik Groven said:
LOL... Te times they are a-changng.

All I really want is 6k @ 60 fps...

Hahahahahaha!
Click to expand...

True.
I sincerely love that we live in a time that someone can say they want 60fps @ 6K and I can think...hmm... I could maybe see that.
Granted I think it's way optimistic - but if you'd said that even a year ago you would have been laughed off any site.

Amazing.
I have to admit, I went into NAB this week unsure how I felt about my Scarlet purchase (yes, I admit it... blasphemy, I know).
It was never a question of whether or not the camera was worth the money, or whether it was a great camera... it was a question of whether or not it was right for me.

After spending all week seeing what every other company was offering, where they were going, and hearing what they had to say - I've never felt better about putting my money on RED.

Don't get me wrong, there are actually some good products out there - I'm not about to claim that no other company knows what they're doing.
But no other company seems to 'get it' the way RED does... that was obvious this past week.
And no other company seems to be heading in a direction I want to go. Now I'm glad I got on board when I did.

Anyhow - a bit off topic for this thread.
Back to the speculation train....
 
Luis Caffesse said:
True.
I sincerely love that we live in a time that someone can say they want 60fps @ 6K and I can think...hmm... I could maybe see that.
Granted I think it's way optimistic - but if you'd said that even a year ago you would have been laughed off any site.
Click to expand...

F65 has 8K sensor and was announced last year... 16K in the other hand.. when will we see that?
 
why does everyone think we will get left over boards ftom the epic? last time i checked, it was only scarlet that needed its gutz replaced... you might have left over scensors...

Josh Snyder said:
F65 has 8K sensor and was announced last year... 16K in the other hand.. when will we see that?
Click to expand...

the F65 does not have a true 8k scensor... its really only about 5k.
 
Here is why i am going to be very pleased with the scarlet dragon upgrade.... all i want is 5K @ 24fps and the extra DR out of the new sensor. anyone else? when i need high speed, ill rent an epic.
 
brian leisring said:
Here is why i am going to be very pleased with the scarlet dragon upgrade.... all i want is 5K @ 24fps and the extra DR out of the new sensor. anyone else? when i need high speed, ill rent an epic.
Click to expand...

That would be swell.
 
I'd love to see 24fps 6k, 48fps 5k (24 hdrx), and basically double the fps every step downward (4k/96, 3k/192, 2k/384... 1k...well...) I'd imagine this would eat up some Epic sales, however, price-wise, it's Scarlet Brain ($9700) plus the upgrade cost ($7500?), which means $17,200 compared to $40k ($34k + $6k) for Epic Dragon, which will likely have 3x the max fps minimum (6k at 72fps)...

...one can always hope, right?
 
Scarlet is already expensive enough. I want the Dragon upgrade to be a new sensor only. No new boards, no boosted framerates.

Even if that means no 6K at all (though I'm hoping for 3-5fps 6K stills, even if it's a DSLR-esque "burst" [RAM buffer] mode).
 
less noise would be my 1st request at any resolution.

frame rate would be second.

I think 4k is plenty (although i know many here would disagree)
 
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