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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Dragon Upgrade Predictions for Scarlet-X

David, there is little question that the price of a Dragon Epic/Scarlet will go up, same way that the MX R1s went from 17.5 to 25k when they began shipping standar with MX. I'd guess the brain only cost of a Dragon Scarlet will be in the $12-13k range.
 
Great guys, thanks for the feedback. I am new in this game and haven't handled an upgrade before. Makes sense to me now.
 
Hopefully they use a 28nm process for the newer boards in the upgrade so the camera can consume less power :)
 
Vino Harris said:
I can't afford to buy a new camera because that's what it cost after getting an upgrade for the scarlet!... 8 to 9K??? hell that's what i paid for it. i know it's set for next year but you have to have the warranty right? Dude I'm done... I can't buy another car priced camra... Just get my brand new 4K camera working properly so I can make movies now.
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I'm sorry, what part of your camera doesn't work properly? Dragon doesn't make MX any worse of a sensor. I think you're just startled by RED's pace.
 
Vino Harris said:
I can't afford to buy a new camera because that's what it cost after getting an upgrade for the scarlet!... 8 to 9K??? hell that's what i paid for it. i know it's set for next year but you have to have the warranty right? Dude I'm done... I can't buy another car priced camra... Just get my brand new 4K camera working properly so I can make movies now.
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Vino, you are probably oblivious to just how offensive your post is to some.

Unlike with other camera manufacturers, you had all the basic information at the time of ordering. You knew what the Scarlet cost. You knew there would be a sensor upgrade offered. You knew that the last time such an offer was made, the upgrade cost $6k. It is not like this is a secret con operation, those cards were clearly on the table. Furthermore - how dare you seeing it as negative that such an upgrade is offered. This is unheard of in the industry and extremely generous.

Also, like you state; you do have a 4k camera, so go out and shoot those movies. Don't worry about the future, be glad that you have chosen RED, where you have the *option* of upgrading in a year's time. No one is going to force you to upgrade. If you don't upgrade, you will still have the same sensor and processing path that Peter Jackson et al. are using.

Just think about those poor souls that have invested in a C300. Already now they are outdated - and there is absolutely no upgrade path, and no loyalty bonus for being an early adopter.
 
+1...

Martin Weiss said:
Vino, you are probably oblivious to just how offensive your post is to some.

Unlike with other camera manufacturers, you had all the basic information at the time of ordering. You knew what the Scarlet cost. You knew there would be a sensor upgrade offered. You knew that the last time such an offer was made, the upgrade cost $6k. It is not like this is a secret con operation, those cards were clearly on the table. Furthermore - how dare you seeing it as negative that such an upgrade is offered. This is unheard of in the industry and extremely generous.

Also, like you state; you do have a 4k camera, so go out and shoot those movies. Don't worry about the future, be glad that you have chosen RED, where you have the *option* of upgrading in a year's time. No one is going to force you to upgrade. If you don't upgrade, you will still have the same sensor and processing path that Peter Jackson et al. are using.

Just think about those poor souls that have invested in a C300. Already now they are outdated - and there is absolutely no upgrade path, and no loyalty bonus for being an early adopter.
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Josef Gatti said:
I'm sure the cost of the Scarlet brain will go up too. Maybe total cost won't be as much as an original Scarlet + upgrade (accounting for manual labor hollowing it out and adding new components), but I'd say the new dragoon brain will be looking around 14k or so.

Scarlet owners shouldn't stress, we're in good hands.
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Hope you're right. This would make the purchase of the Scarlet-X great because you got a camera, had time so save up some more money, and upgrade it. Instead of paying all the money at once.
 
I have brought this up before but I will say it again (just throwing things out, here!)

One thing I think would be really awesome would be an alternative/less expensive upgrade option as well. Hypothetical situation:

Let's say for the sake of argument that this upgrade costs $9k for Scarlet. We know it requires obviously replacing the sensor but also replacing boards to handle/process more information. Let's also say that of the $9k upgrade cost, 5000 is the cost of the sensor, 4000 is the cost of the new boards.

Now, stay with me here.. for people who maybe are on a bit tighter budget/are happy with the current sensor but want some more framerates/hdrx etc.. what about an upgrade option just to replace the boards? The $4000 part of the upgrade, which would simply increase performance with the current sensor? I know I would be interested in it, I bet I'm not the only one.

All conjecture of course. But this is a speculative thread.
 
I think we are all guessing along the same lines:

5k 25fps
4k 50fps
3k: 96fps
2k: 120fps

$9000 upgrade, as its the $6000 Epic upgrade...PLUS $$$ for the extra boards. You are getting a whole new sensor with 15DR (better than Alexa), aggressive lowlight, better slowmo. It's a whole new camera for 1/4 the price of an Epic. Still pretty amazing.

And...by the time all the Epic's have been upgraded, it will probably be mid 2013 before the Scarlets are due for their upgrade. So this is still all over a year off.

And don't forget, the Scarlet even NOW is amazing. Dragon Tattoo was 80-90% Red One. Proof that just owning a RAW RED camera is all you need to make an uncompromising movie.
 
Remember this,
When the epics get upgraded there will be a lot of old epic boards... I think scarlet users will be able to have their cameras gutted and replaced with epic interior... for a good price.
 
Björn Benckert said:
Remember this,
When the epics get upgraded there will be a lot of old epic boards... I think scarlet users will be able to have their cameras gutted and replaced with epic interior... for a good price.
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The RED One upgrade + original price was less expensive them just buying a new body with the MX sensor. I think that give us a clue!
 
Björn Benckert said:
Remember this,
When the epics get upgraded there will be a lot of old epic boards... I think scarlet users will be able to have their cameras gutted and replaced with epic interior... for a good price.
Click to expand...

Great idea Björn and i hope not far from the reality...
 
Peter Stadelmann said:
Great idea Björn and i hope not far from the reality...
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How far from reality this is depends on if the extra frame rates on epic are from new asics or just tweaking the settings. I wouldn't be supprised if they continue to make the mx scarlet for a while with new asic's and old epic sensors.

The reason they have not given specifics on the scarlet upgrades is they don't know what it is yet. If they get significantly better yields, then we could see a huge framerate upgrade. Scarlet framerates were set based on the average speed of asic that didn't bin high enough for epic. These bin effeciencies improve over time,we just don't know by how much.

I predict two options for scarlet.

Dragon upgrade. More then $6k epic upgrade but less then current Scarlet X brain.
Dragon Sensor only. $6k better DR and highe resr stills at lower fps
ASIC only, higher fps with same sensor. Difference in price between the two.

I wouldn't be supprised if the third option is offered as a new scarlet model to use up all the epic sensors comming back in. They will give the most speed they can manage with whatever the new group of epic reject chips can provide.
 
Björn Benckert said:
Remember this,
When the epics get upgraded there will be a lot of old epic boards... I think scarlet users will be able to have their cameras gutted and replaced with epic interior... for a good price.
Click to expand...

That's why you're creative lead! ;) great idea, I still doubt it though.
But who knows. One can dream, can he?

Though this really sounds like a clever idea business wise
 
What would be reasonable and logical is to multiply all current framerates by two, making it

12fps@6K
24fps@5K
48fps@4K
96fps@3K
120fps@2K
240fps@720p

Maybe also add a lower compression settings for higher res, allowing to shoot 5K at something like 3:1.

Plus all the benefits of the sensor that are the same on any camera — higher DR, better low light etc.

Now, saying all that doesn't mean that I don't want Scarlet to be a 6K 120fps beast of a camera, I'm just trying to be realistic.

I really hope that the upgrade cost for Scarlet won't exceed 10K.
 
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