Dragon uncaged...

[Eryc Tramonn]

Damn it, Jim...

I know that other thread was getting outta hand, but some people need to lighten up. Really bad. You're good. You have not "encouraged" anyone, and there was little need for an apology. But you're gracious for offering it. Sad that our society is so -- simple.

Anyway -- back to DRAGON. Sorry guys, I got a little pissed at a certain troll.

 

[Phil Holland]

Chris or Phil, in the shot of the touchscreen it appears the temp was running pretty low. Jarred said the Dragon loves heat. Do you get the sense that Dragon footage will look better when shot at a higher temp? And what about black shading?... any difference in requirements or how that is handled on the MX sensor and the Dragon?

Well I'll jump in on this one. In terms of image performance and what's better at what temp "exactly", well I know I haven't been around it enough to know anything really.

Now on to black shading and high temperature operation.

Chris's shoot was outside and in the desert somewhere between 98 and 105 degrees. The Dragon handled that just fine.

We did fire off a black shade in probably the strangest place that a Red camera has ever been black shaded, which if I recall correctly was in the 9-ish minute realm. Nice and snappy really.

Theoretically, and perhaps this might be my opinion as well, between new fans and fan algorithms with the added sensor heater tossed in there; there might be less reason to black shade "that much" if the sensor temperature is so regulated by the harmony of all that tech. And honestly, I don't need to black shade all that often now.

 

[Will Keir]

excellent news, keep up the good work guys!

Does this mean there is an updated timeframe for the early adopters to get their upgrades? Some kind of idea? Still September?

Jarred and I have been posting at the end of another but this news probably deserves its own thread.

The Dragon is out of the lab and in the hands of trained professionals. So far, the feedback is everything we had hoped to hear.

One major league production was going to shoot EPIC MX for everything except the "wide vistas"... and use 6K Dragon on those. After viewing his tests... the project will go 100% Dragon. It is a 20 camera shoot.

Jim

 

[Elsie N]

...
Does this mean there is an updated timeframe for the early adopters to get their upgrades? Some kind of idea? Still September?

Will, by early adopters do you mean those who got their cameras first or those who signed up for the upgrades first? I know that some, including you, got the Red Ray Players early on (and I assume you signed up early.)

The last I heard they were doing upgrades based on the order in which people signed up, so I guess that would qualify as early adopters as many on here said they were going to wait until they saw pictures or footage before signing up. That would put them in the category of late adopters, I would think, no matter what their camera number. '-)

And yes, somewhere Jim stated that upgrades were still on schedule for September.

 

[Alexey Datsenko]

Pardon me guys, I know you love your Dragon but...
6K (5k at MX), 120 fps at 5K (96 at MX), dynamic range in 16,5 stops (+ 3 stops according to MX) it is cool of course but
Do these advantages really cost the half price of the Epic,
For example I can buy 2 Dragons for two Epics MX or buy 1 Epic MX.
Or is it for top filmmakers

 

[Elsie N]

Pardon me guys, I know you love your Dragon but...
6K (5k at MX), 120 fps at 5K (96 at MX), dynamic range in 16,5 stops (+ 3 stops according to MX) it is cool of course but
Do these advantages really cost the half price of the Epic,
For example I can buy 2 Dragons for two Epics MX or buy 1 Epic MX.

All good points Alexey, but I think it comes down to quantity vs quality. And that has to be decided from a personal perspective.

 

[Eryc Tramonn]

And honestly, I don't need to black shade all that often now.

I have found, as others have noted, that BS only needs to be done should the environment change drastically. I've never encountered any issues under a variety of conditions...studio, and in the field. In Coachella Valley recently, we did it as a precaution, but the variance between INT and EXT was pretty extreme. Plan for it, and perform while resetting -- you're good. If the calibration time has been brought down further, there's even less to worry about.

Just my personal assessment.

 

[Sean Cruser]

All of this. SO GREAT. Cannot WAIT to get some R3D's to play with.

 

[Vadim Bobkovsky]

Some other companies would gladly demand two times the price of an Epic for that in a new camera body, IMO. Better sensitivity, lower noise floor and native highlight protection alone are priceless points in my book. Last time I checked, F65 and Alexa with recorder were a little bit more expensive than Epic, though I may be wrong.

 

[shawn greene]

Thank you. For all the hard work and innovation...

 

[Christopher Probst]

Current versions of RedCineX will not open Dragon r3ds, so that won't be possible for the immediate future.

 

[Mike P.]

Current versions of RedCineX will not open Dragon r3ds, so that won't be possible for the immediate future.

Presumably the proper RCX would be released at the same time.

In either case, I think most (okay, maybe just me) would be satiated (for a couple of days anyway) with a still, and then a BTS still showing the exact lighting set-up used... We already have a BTS shot of you wearing a shirt-covered hip-light, now all we need is the Dragon image that the set up created

 

[Andy Roberts]

Do these advantages really cost the half price of the Epic,
For example I can buy 2 Dragons for two Epics MX or buy 1 Epic MX. Or is it for top filmmakers

I'm FAR FAR from a top filmmaker. I'm BARELY a professional filmmaker or photographer. YET EVEN I think the Dragon sensor is worth it. THREE MORE STOPS of DR is huge.
I was testing with my Epic last night, exposing a high contrast scene at f8, protecting the highlights. 3 extra stops is being able to get all the shadow detail as if I was exposing at f2.8.
So that is what I did, I dropped it to f2.8 to see the detail in the shadows come alive. The camera will truly capture what my eyes see versus some compromise between shadow and highlight. Lighting will be become, I believe, much more about creative choices and less about exposure balancing. On DR alone, Red has accomplished a monumental feat.

 

[Eryc Tramonn]

I'm FAR FAR from a top filmmaker. I'm BARELY a professional filmmaker or photographer. YET EVEN I think the Dragon sensor is worth it. THREE MORE STOPS of DR is huge.
I was testing with my Epic last night, exposing a high contrast scene at f8, protecting the highlights. 3 extra stops is being able to get all the shadow detail as if I was exposing at f2.8.
So that is what I did, I dropped it to f2.8 to see the detail in the shadows come alive. The camera will truly capture what my eyes see versus some compromise between shadow and highlight. Lighting will be become, I believe, much more about creative choices and less about exposure balancing. On DR alone, Red has accomplished a monumental feat.

Finally. Succinct. I stated the same, but we have to keep expressing this from twenty different angles.

Apparently, we don't need to be "top" filmmakers anymore. You're just a filmmaker. Period. If you know what you're doing (IMO -- you've got it), or your methods work to achieve the results you want, what more is there? Now we can focus on things like character, and developing story. Produce the most accomplished image you desire/can achieve within your means and know-how. No longer governed by the tool.

Filmmaking has already been very interesting for quite awhile, but it's about to go PLAID.

And that was all meant with the highest regard to you, Andy. I like your humility. In my experience, the humble peeps are typically the dopest filmmakers. Not that I'm anyone. I'm not.

 

[Alain M]

Congratulations Jim. Any chance you will provide a side-by-side comparison stills to play with and see the true difference between MX and DRAGON?

Thanks!

Alain M

 

[Andy Roberts]

Not that I'm anyone. I'm not.

Thanks. I like your energy Eryc.

 

[Alain M]

I am about to shoot a film. the budget is very low, but with a lot of help and favors to make a great production with RED Scarlet. lights and DR capabilities always are important, and I agree with Eryc and most of you that all these add features will always help the little guys...the big guys can spend a lot of money to compensate high contrast situations, low light environments, etc. But the little guys having that huge ISO range with no noise and DR is amazing and will keep us focused on the Character, the delievery of the lines, the emotional touch of each scene., and save us tons of $$$ in setup as well.

My honest humble opinion, and proud to be part of this historic RED Volution

Alain M

 

[Eryc Tramonn]

Thanks. I like your energy Eryc.

:-D

Dude, this is real-time Lumiére Bros, stuff -- likely the rebirth of cinema, or a SIGNIFICANT milestone at the VERY least. To paraphrase Phil, "This is not game changing, this is history making."

I know there are many that might be put off by my unbridled enthusiasm, but so what? Last I checked, they're not paying my bills. And if I have to listen to their rampant speculation, ad infinitum -- well, now it's time to PARTY for a bit. I've been a member since '07, reading since launch, and a supporter in spirit since birth.

RDC's about to drop the goods, and they're excited about it. And I'm excited that they're excited, and happy to let them know it.

I'm willing to bet money on it that they can hardly contain themselves.

And thanks for saying so. Greatly appreciated.

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

There's a bumper sticker that says "Good girls seldom make history"

There's a bumper sticker that says "Good girls seldom make history"

In camera world RED is indeed making history, and, as others have noted, we are riding on the shoulders of giants and (tortured analogy alert) shooting the curl.

When confronted by the realization that the only limitation is your talent, then you get to find out just how much you believe in yourself - and that's scary territory for most of us.

Yes, content is king - technology without vision and talent is pointless - stipulated. That said, I've been fortunate enough to capture some amazing images over the years, some of which make me cringe years later due to the technical limitations of the medium I was working in that day. My enthusiasm for Dragon might not match Eryc's ;-), but I am very pumped to think that everything I shoot the rest of my life will stand on its artistic merits without the technical equivalent of an asterisk.

In terms of what matters to me, that's a huge gift - sincere thanks to Jim and the RedTeam.

Cheers - #19

 

[Robert Ruffo New]

Pardon me guys, I know you love your Dragon but...
6K (5k at MX), 120 fps at 5K (96 at MX), dynamic range in 16,5 stops (+ 3 stops according to MX) it is cool of course but
Do these advantages really cost the half price of the Epic,
For example I can buy 2 Dragons for two Epics MX or buy 1 Epic MX.
Or is it for top filmmakers

The way the business is - the last 20% of quality earns you 200% more money. Same goes with tools. Same goes with many things. A $100 000 pair of speakers is maybe 20% better than a well chosen $1000 pair of speakers. People who want the very best (clients) are often happily willing to pay for it.

Another word of warning: there is no more middle class in this business. You can be at the top, or at the bottom, in terms of how you shoot. The bottom is not a happy place.