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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Dragon??? So after nearly 10months what do we think? NATIVE 2000ASA no 18stops no ..

sergio arguello said:
when you put it that way it just occurs to me that yes it was a flawed OLPF and it did have better lowlight capability, but wasn't there also a distasteful flare issue as well?
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Yes, that odd ghosting issue. Plus skintone was not as accurate, and there was less headroom in the highlights. But it was better in the lowlights, which is what people are getting it for.

Kemalettin Sert said:
is this joke? insane DR on A7s? wow :) thanks for making me laugh.
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Correct. The A7S has been tested to have over 14 stops in video Slog2 mode. You can define insane however you wish, but to have that DR in your pocket it petty impressive.
http://nofilmschool.com/2014/07/sony-a7s-dynamic-range-arri-alexa-amira/
 
Ivan Kovax said:
Yes, that odd ghosting issue. Plus skintone was not as accurate, and there was less headroom in the highlights. But it was better in the lowlights, which is what people are getting it for.
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Yeah, those are enough to keep me away from the 'lownoise' OLPF. I'm ordering my DRAGON with the new OLPF and hope RED has some form of swapout to the 'goldilocks' OLPF when it becomes available, and i'm hopeful it'll be free for those buying DRAGON ARMOR at the very least. Wait and see... in the meantime, excited to jump into the DRAGON world. Now if only the RMA dept would call me... I feel like I'm waiting by the phone for my date to call. ;)
 
andy patch said:
a7s has incredibly high DR and is perfectly clean at 3200.
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What the! How many of you think A7s would replace Red Epic and Alexa?
it was BMC4K few months ago then GH4 and now A7s...Oh god! its not even does internal 4K and rolling shutter is big joke.Wouldnt pick A7s against 5D or GH4.
What do you guys want? 3200 Clean iso ? Just buy it! dont waste your 30K on Dragon.
 
Why are we talking about the a7s? What boxes does this camera tick off when I am choosing between it and the Dragon?
I thought this other camera talk was for DVX user?

Battistella
 
Kemalettin Sert said:
What the! How many of you think A7s would replace Red Epic and Alexa?
it was BMC4K few months ago then GH4 and now A7s...Oh god! its not even does internal 4K and rolling shutter is big joke.Wouldnt pick A7s against 5D or GH4.
What do you guys want? 3200 Clean iso ? Just buy it! dont waste your 30K on Dragon.
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Oh just relax- I'll be buying both. Both cameras are fantastic, and any new and innovative technology at a lower price is a good thing.
 
Nick Fury said:
Hi Phil,

could you confirm whether the images I see on my monitor (without you seeing my monitor, of cpourse...) of what appear to be scleral vessels in the left side of your eye were present in vivo? Do you know if DEB takes a certain density of , say 660nm wavelength and perhaps filters that out? If that is akin to what DEB does, I can readily understand that on certain occasions DEB would be beneficial and other occasions, not so much.

Thank you very much

Fury
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Nick, I'm not Phil but you've already lost the specific nanometre wavelength info when the light went through the Bayer color filter. The camera just has "red, green, blue" info left. Any post process such as DEB can't get that info back.

Here's a deeper examination. As you can see, this is why I disagree with Phil's statement that DEB is just removing noise and adding detail, or that it is a color science enhancement. It is in many ways more destructive than running Neat Video.

It loses / smears A LOT of color detail. And gains you some luma detail - eg look at the fine hairs on the bottom of the eye and clearly DEB is having a good effect there.

It might be a good idea to run both DEB and non-DEB and then do some kind of clever combining. Or tweak DEB filter.

EDIT: For reference, here's Phil's original post:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...o-18stops-no&p=1399859&viewfull=1#post1399859

DEB_examine_ba_v01.jpg


Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
Bruce,

can you include the original wide shot and whole image as a reference as well? Otherwise those can get a bit FUDish if people don't understand exactly what context and how many pixels we're cutting out and what the level of zoom is on the images.

I'm thinking that's a 300 or 400 % zoom. I get that you can see what's going on at that level but zooming out to take in the whole is important as that is what "people" would see.

Battistella
 
David Battistella said:
Bruce,

can you include the original wide shot and whole image as a reference as well? Otherwise those can get a bit FUDish if people don't understand exactly what context and how many pixels we're cutting out and what the level of zoom is on the images.

Battistella
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I edited to include Phil's original post. Good?

BTW, I would have included his image but I couldn't get the images on Phil's original post to load this AM. They come up as broken links. When I get home tonight, I'll fix and upload to my own server so no issues. I only have the crop with me here right now.

But you guys see what I'm talking about, right?

All of these claims of DEB might lead to a lot of people turning it on blindly when they shouldn't.

Phil kinda made it sound like you should have it turned on all of the time because it was just a massive stack of benefits and when I excitedly loaded the image, I was like "holy crap that is nothing like what I expected from his post." There are lots of other ways to get rid of red speckle and I for one would attempt those first before DEB. Or like I said, combine DEB and non-DEB.

If you REALLY want an eye into what DEB does, load up an image with and without DEB into Photoshop and go into LAB mode, then start looking at the color channels. It's quite drastic.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
Thanks bruce.

yeah, I get what you mean and I know you get what I mean. Good that you are seeing it's not for every shot.

Battistella
 
Something is up with my website. Apologies. I'm shooting at the moment, in the middle of a street no less. I'll take a look at what's up with my server in a bit.
 
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