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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Dragon Lens Coverage Information

Jannard said:
I stand by my post that the Leicas are my pick as the best lens set for Dragon. While there is some slight vignetting (there is some on most lenses), the combination of resolution and color... coupled with size and speed make these my 1st choice. Center and edge resolution isn't matched by any lens I have tested for any given focal length. If the vignetting on these Leicas bothers you... my bet is that you haven't taken a close look at your favorite lenses. Even full frame Canon and Nikon lenses vignette to some degree.

Having said that... there are a TON of great lens options for Dragon, including many lenses outside "normal" focal lengths. I have a 200mm f2.0 Nikon lens that I love. The 300mm RPP is awesome. I'm quite sure the Ultra Primes will get a ton of Dragon use. Anything you currently own will work.

Jim
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Yes Jim, I agree exactly, even FF lenses vignettes and it can be blamed as being "characteristic" of the lens.

My point here is that I am sure Masters and Ultras have some "characteristics" which were completely ignored and Leica's even vignetted at 40mm, come on...

Not that it matters, I will be doing my own test with my lens sets. Just wanted to see if Phil had Expanded notes on those lenses as well :)
 
I'll back you on that Jim. Those Leicas have a bit of magic in them that's rather different from other top tier glass. I'm both a realist and a pixel peeper (loathe that term). The LSCs are special in a very new way.

I picked up a set of Schneider Cine-Xenar IIIs because I have an odd fascination for them and they are damn proper for production use. But I did briefly think for a moment about finding a way to get funds together for those Summilux-Cs. I'll have to work on that next year.
 
FYI, there's not much to expand on the Master Primes and Ultra Primes. Those are pretty much concise notes on those.
 
All good on my side... Just prematurely panicked at the word Vignetting... ;)

That the Leica Summilux C. Primes are the best there is, I had no doubts form the moment I shot with it on M8 IN Munich in 2011 thanks to a loaner from Band Pro, and immediately Ordered them.


And can't wait to shoot my first piece on DRAGON with them... And also get some nice 6' print to sport... ;)
 
KETCH ROSSi said:
All good on my side... Just prematurely panicked at the word Vignetting... ;)

That the Leica Summilux C. Primes are the best there is, I had no doubts form the moment I shot with it on M8 IN Munich in 2011 thanks to a loaner from Band Pro, and immediately Ordered them.


And can't wait to shoot my first piece on DRAGON with them... And also get some nice 6' print to sport... ;)
Click to expand...

Yeah Ketch, they are the best you will love them :)
 
Jannard said:
I stand by my post that the Leicas are my pick as the best lens set for Dragon. While there is some slight vignetting (there is some on most lenses), the combination of resolution and color... coupled with size and speed make these my 1st choice. Center and edge resolution isn't matched by any lens I have tested for any given focal length. If the vignetting on these Leicas bothers you... my bet is that you haven't taken a close look at your favorite lenses. Even full frame Canon and Nikon lenses vignette to some degree.

Having said that... there are a TON of great lens options for Dragon, including many lenses outside "normal" focal lengths. I have a 200mm f2.0 Nikon lens that I love. The 300mm RPP is awesome. I'm quite sure the Ultra Primes will get a ton of Dragon use. Anything you currently own will work.

Jim
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I can't wait to put my Leica-R set on my Dragon(s), I think those lenses are gonna be the new choice for coverage, price and image.
 
KETCH ROSSi said:
I know Asif... And if I don't have them in time or can't source them otherwise locally to my shot,... I'll bring you and yours to it... ;)
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Anytime man. And I'm sure you will shoot 6K as much as possible. Perfect lens for that ;)
 
Phil Holland said:
It was made clear that by Matthew himself that that wasn't the best way to test for coverage. And remember we tested wide open and occasionally stopped down to T2.8 when those lenses were on the projector. Wide open the Leica's all projected the target "cleanly" with a bit of fall off. And if you remember correctly the Summilux-C 75mm was the one we were all impressed by it's image circle projecting that target. Which not only covers, but covers through the iris range. Great lens IMO.

There's a variety of ways to test coverage with several devices. This particular test is all about how these lenses perform on Dragon. It's important to toss the lenses on this camera as there's various things that could come into play that a simple measurement may not provide. Also very important to see the image in the frame itself.
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To be blunt about it - apologies in advance! - this shows again that shooting charts, checking lenses on projectors, measuring lines etc doesn't mean much.
Of course, it has its usefulness - for the technical inclined, for the pixel peeps, for lens technicians and for people like Duclos who do need an objective standard to compare (important). And even then, you get what happened here - on a lens projector, it looked like Leicas had more coverage, on the actual camera, it's the opposite.

But, all these technical charts/lines don't mean much for the artist, anyway. Invariably, the artist will try different lenses on the camera, shoot a landscape, shoot some faces, shoot some exteriors, shoot some interiors, and then project the results on the big screen. The artist invariably picks what his EYES will tell him, not what the numbers say. He looks at the image on the screen, not at the lens projector.
 
KETCH ROSSi said:
Yes 6K all the way buddy, especially for all the Fashion Films I'll shoot from which I'll be printing some HUGE Canvases to cover the walls of my new Studio in LA... ;)
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It's probably the 45th time you are mentioning this, Ketch :-)

Take a deep breath and relax :-)

Dragon will be great with all kinds of lenses.
 
Thank you Phil for this great information


Sunil Prem
 
Medavoym said:
To be blunt about it - apologies in advance! - this shows again that shooting charts, checking lenses on projectors, measuring lines etc doesn't mean much.
Of course, it has its usefulness - for the technical inclined, for the pixel peeps, for lens technicians and for people like Duclos who do need an objective standard to compare (important). And even then, you get what happened here - on a lens projector, it looked like Leicas had more coverage, on the actual camera, it's the opposite.

But, all these technical charts/lines don't mean much for the artist, anyway. Invariably, the artist will try different lenses on the camera, shoot a landscape, shoot some faces, shoot some exteriors, shoot some interiors, and then project the results on the big screen. The artist invariably picks what his EYES will tell him, not what the numbers say. He looks at the image on the screen, not at the lens projector.
Click to expand...


I have such crazy thoughts on this matter. There's actually every reason in the world to test lenses on a projector, measuring resolving power, shooting charts, etc..... It can point out an "absolute" truths and flaws regarding a lens and also more importantly sometimes reveal if the lens needs to be serviced in some way. For instance if there's a soft corner in a projected lens that reveals something is up and needs to be addressed. Also, the technical tests truly reveal why a lens performs the way it does. If we didn't understand that they would just be magic tube that gather and shoot out light.


There seems to be a mindset of some, and these are things I've heard in the past, "I don't shoot charts, I shoot scenes" or something similar.

However, my direct reply is there's absolutely no reason not to test lenses scientifically and also aesthetically. We don't need to live an either or sort of situation here.


Recently I spent a few days shooting with the Illuminas for instance because I wanted to get to know them better. I did the charts and whatnot, but then I took the lenses outside into the wild. High contrast, shooting wide open, shooting closed, low light, full focus pulls, etc.... Now I have a better understanding of what they can do based on their technical attributes, but also some other interesting intangibles like how they feel at T1.3 and why they feel a bit different at T2 and T2.8.

There's values to both ways of thinking. Without one it's hard to have the other really.

Remember optics are designed by engineers and made for artists. And in this professional you could say that optical engineers are artists themselves, the vice versa could also be said about DPs in some regard as well these days.
 
Phil, and Mark have done a wonderful service to the whole RedUser community, I personally want to thank you both! The information on the Leica Summilux-C Primes was most welcome, it kind of confirm something that I suspected, I’m sure they have the resolution! However the "Master Primes” do have the breath (12 mm to 150 mm), the T Stop (every little helps), they have been battled tested for a decade (any problems would have surfaced by now), they have (LDS) (and if lucky Red might adopt-it), and they seem wider at a Wider Focal length (25 mm). They’re both good lenses, but I would give the edge to the Mater Primes. If you have any additional notes, like you did with the Leica Summilux-C Primes, but on the Master Primes, IT WOULD BE NICE TO COMPARE THEM! Just saying!

Humberto Rivera
 
Thank you for the info, Phil! Nice job as usual. Very informative.
 
I just wanted to add to my post the Epic 6K Dragon has an Image circle of 34.5 Ø mm, the 6000 X 3000 image at 2:1 has an Image Circle of 33.52 Ø mm, and that extra 1 mm could be the difference between using all the Master Primes or possibly the Leica Summilux-C Primes!

Humberto Rivera
 
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