Dragon Flare

[Arthur To]

This is meant as a joke, right? The story doesn't seem plausible in light if the legal dispute with arri/Michael bravin, avid reds ongoing insistence that their flesh tones are fine. And if they did do reverse engineering or at least keeping up with the competition, they could afford a couple alexas to disassemble. And I really doubt they would do business with a rental company with the lack of discretion you suggest.

Oooo . . . I love a good mystery novel. Please continue!

Is "To" short for troll?

Not exactly the type of conversation I expected to encounter, but ok. Seems sort of silly when a discussion of this caliber boils down to whether I'm trolling or not. I dont exactly have any reason to make something like this up, this is just info to contribute to the group as a whole, take it with a grain. iMdb can help if you need a little credential.

 

[Phil Holland]

Hey Phil, has RED mentioned if the Dragon OLPF wizardry is coming to MX? I seem to recall Jim saying they'd offer different OLPFs (like a low con) just to appease the crowd, but I couldn't tell if he was joking.

I never heard of Red offering a Low Contrast filter, but these should answer both of your questions:

OLPF

The OLPF on Dragon is in fact user replaceable. I have no ideas what Red has planned, but this new Dragon OLPF is purely designed for Dragon. Also Red HQ required calibration is necessary no matter what as there's some under the hood stuff that needs to get updated.

One thing that is interesting that I recently learned is that part of the reason the OLPF has some distance between it and the sensor is to minimize the appearance of potential dust/particles that can get inside the sensor box.

As for the future of Mysterium-X getting a new OLPF, tuned color science, and calibration I have no idea. The sensor itself is part of this equation.

LowCon

I tested every soft and Low con filter out there and the best one for matching an Alexa is a Schneider 1/16th HD classic soft. It has the same low con effect as a 1/8 Digicon or Lowcon but adds just a teeny tiny amount of halation to souces that really looks nice.

That said you may not want to match the Alexa in terms of a LowCon Filter. You can got stronger for sure.


I think Red will likely offer multiple OLPFs once this dust settles. We'll have to see what those produce though.

 

[Mike P.]

Cool, thanks Phil.

Per different OLPFs; my mind could be playing ticks, and in either case, I don't know if it was Dragon-specific or DSMC/MX in general.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

... That said you may not want to match the Alexa in terms of a LowCon Filter. You can got stronger for sure.

Most definitely so Phil, however I also happen to like the 1/16th HD Classic Soft, as it just seems to give that hint of glow in a smoothed out glow like off some of the highlights and renders very nicely on skin as well, while it is really nice on the out of focus areas too, and is especially nice to those areas that present some higher contrast.

Truth is that I didn't wanted to use any such Low Con filters, but the 1/16th to Dragon 6kFF is just a really nice touch, and while most definitely Dragon's power of resolve can handle much stronger Low Con filters, I would only use them for very few specific shots, particularly on Beauty extreme close up.

Had been testing out the possibility to shoot one with and an exact shot without by pulling away the filter in a snap, and then pulling frames form both shots and see how I like them in Photoshop and if not what I can do in post to mask out the parts form the no filter shot, and the possibilities become interesting indeed...

Now if I was as patient and as discipline as you are, I would do a series of tests and posts away... But I am not ha ha... But we'll show some of my results some time soon just the same...

 

[Tony Lorentzen]

I think Red will likely offer multiple OLPFs once this dust settles. We'll have to see what those produce though.

They actually hinted at this a couple of years ago when they had a few different ones on display at NAB, but as always - things are subject to change... count on it ;-)

 

[Elsie N]

Not exactly the type of conversation I expected to encounter, but ok. Seems sort of silly when a discussion of this caliber boils down to whether I'm trolling or not. I dont exactly have any reason to make something like this up, this is just info to contribute to the group as a whole, take it with a grain. iMdb can help if you need a little credential.

Not questioning your veracity... but I do question your judgement in disclosing something that I would have taken to have an implied NDA attached. Not sure I would want to do business with a chatterbox.

 

[Zach Gray]

Not exactly the type of conversation I expected to encounter, but ok. Seems sort of silly when a discussion of this caliber boils down to whether I'm trolling or not. I dont exactly have any reason to make something like this up, this is just info to contribute to the group as a whole, take it with a grain. iMdb can help if you need a little credential.

Didn't mean offense by asking if your comment was a joke. It just seems way out of character for red. Is this first hand or just conjecture? There is so much misinformation, backhanded jokes, and rumor on reduser already, some clarification wouldn't hurt.

 

[Craig Parkes]

Renting a competitors product for comparison testing isn't exactly industrial espionage anyway. I would imagine every camera manufacturer does the same. Not any real news, and I inagine your rental policy didn't give them the right to pull it to bits so they could only learn the same things any other user testing a camera could.

 

[Tommaso Alvisi]

well said Craig.

 

[Kemalettin Sert]

Not exactly the type of conversation I expected to encounter, but ok. Seems sort of silly when a discussion of this caliber boils down to whether I'm trolling or not. I dont exactly have any reason to make something like this up, this is just info to contribute to the group as a whole, take it with a grain. iMdb can help if you need a little credential.

so what? being DIT on few movies makes you super trusted?? Check old threads back in 2010
http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?47529-EPIC-and-Alexa
They had Alexas from the beginning same like Arri owns RED EPIC...
Even Red dont own Alexa you are the guy to rent Alexa? LOL LOL LOL Dude somebody from Red maybe Bomb squad or Cleaning guy may rent your alexa for short movie because its cheaper than others rentals like Otto Clairmont Camtech RadiantImages,but how come you think RED got your camera for OLPF testing? What are you 15/25yo?
Take it with grain or ice cream YOU ARE NOT THE GUY that professional company would rent the Alexa for techical tests.

 

[Niko Pueringer]

so what? being DIT on few movies makes you super trusted?? Check old threads back in 2010
http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?47529-EPIC-and-Alexa
They had Alexas from the beginning same like Arri owns RED EPIC...
Even Red dont own Alexa you are the guy to rent Alexa? LOL LOL LOL Dude somebody from Red maybe Bomb squad or Cleaning guy may rent your alexa for short movie because its cheaper than others rentals like Otto Clairmont Camtech RadiantImages,but how come you think RED got your camera for OLPF testing? What are you 15/25yo?
Take it with grain or ice cream YOU ARE NOT THE GUY that professional company would rent the Alexa for techical tests.

This the exact kind of post that gives Reduser a bad rep. You have no idea who Arthur is or what he's worked on, and this response is hardly mature or professional.

 

[David Battistella]

OK.

Arthur posted something. Why has that started a flame war? I think RED probably looks at the images of every major competitor, no? You think they just go into a dark room and pretend nothing else exists? Arthur has sorta been called a liar, had his credentials ripped, told he was untrustworthy, etc, for what? Saying he rented RED his alexa so they could do some comparative tests?

If he did great, if he didn't, great. If RED had a problem with it, it would have been cleaned up by now.

But please don't rip the shit of a persons integrity for one post. It's just bad form.

Battistella

 

[Zeb B]

. . . the OLPF is a month away so if your Dragon is due before then you . . .

February 17th still a good shipping date?

 

[Elsie N]

OK.

... told he was untrustworthy, etc, for what? Saying he rented RED his alexa so they could do some comparative tests?

...

Battistella

I think his initial post was saying something to the effect that RED rented his Alexa so they could tear it down (I suppose that's how they looked at the OLPF on the camera) and examinine the OLPF. Apparently he agreed to having his camera disassembled by RED for which they paid him an agreed upon rental fee.

And yes, I consider him untrustworthy because he chose to reveal the conditions of their rental agreement, presumably without checking with RED first. I just don't think that is any way to do business... disclosing something a client revealed as their intention, being upfront with the camera owner, and then having that rental agent go posting on a public forum the terms of their agreement.

That's all.

 

[David Battistella]

Wasn't coming after you Elsie,

just saw this all leaning downhill.

battistella

I think his initial post was saying something to the effect that RED rented his Alexa so they could tear it down (I suppose that's how they looked at the OLPF on the camera) and examinine the OLPF. Apparently he agreed to having his camera disassembled by RED for which they paid him an agreed upon rental fee.

And yes, I consider him untrustworthy because he chose to reveal the conditions of their rental agreement, presumably without checking with RED first. I just don't think that is any way to do business... disclosing something a client revealed as their intention, being upfront with the camera owner, and then having that rental agent go posting on a public forum the terms of their agreement.

That's all.

 

[Elsie N]

Wasn't coming after you Elsie,

just saw this all leaning downhill.

battistella

for the most part, like you I saw his post as meaning to be positive... I just wanted to make him aware that there may be protocols to follow before offering information.

 

[Jarred Land]

Awhile back, RED rented my Alexa and asked me to hold off on the memory cards. When they picked it up (good friends of mine) they explained that it was for developing the new OLPF sensor, and they needed an Alexa to study for the initial R&D. The primary goal of the development was to fix the skin tones that came out using the current sensor.

Up until that point, even when the Dragon was first announced, they knew they had the whole OLPF thing backwards, which is why the Epic always looked "the way it did". RED had never had an Alexa in their hands, so they didnt have anything to go off of. This development is a big leap for the dragon in terms of color, skin tones, etc, etc. Looking forward to when we can finally see it in the real world.

Trust me.. if we wanted to take apart an Alexa ( which we don't ) we wouldn't rent someone's camera to do so. We do rent cameras to shoot charts, like any normal company would.

 

[Patrick Tresch]

Hello Jarred,

If you read this... Please reopen the "All the Epic..." thread. Don't get upset about the other guy. We can't argue of what is posted on CML but let's discuss things here on RU please. I'll shoot wednesday on Dragon (without the new Olpf) and I'm happy to see what I can acchieve now with this beast. Talk doesn't kill.

Kind regards.

Patrick

 

[Jarred Land]

Hello Jarred,

If you read this... Please reopen the "All the Epic..." thread. Don't get upset about the other guy. We can't argue of what is posted on CML but let's discuss things here on RU please. I'll shoot wednesday on Dragon (without the new Olpf) and I'm happy to see what I can acchieve now with this beast. Talk doesn't kill.

Kind regards.

Patrick

ok.

 

[Patrick Tresch]

Merci Jarred!

Pat