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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Dragon 6k R3D RCX Full Rez... What Station you'r doing this with?

Correct Jeff,

that is also why testing the 295 makes more sense, as we are looking for a single System solution for RCx, Premiere and Resolve.

Of course I doubt that it will outperform the 9100, but if it does, would be great for the huge price difference, and if possible to add two of them and still be 1k below the 9100 price tag, even better.

Ultimately I am very sad that Mac trash can can't provide a solution in it's current system offerings, and there were it can is still not close to what PC can do, and coming from me, I can'r believe i am even saying this, well writing it actually... :)

I so don't want to move to PC/Windows base work station system, but I simply don't see a choice.
 
thanks Jeff...;)

yes Ketch try 295X2 i think this card i a very devil in Open Cl ....
i wait your test ;)


ciao
GIgi
 
After much consideration and sadness at there being no real Apple solution, here's the system I just bought from JMR.

-Dual CPU mother board with Xeon® CPUs type E5-2650V2 2.6GHz 8-core (two CPUs with active cooler kits installed)
-64GB RAM, DDR3/ECC memory
-240GB SSD system boot drive
-Dual-port 10GbE network adapter with installed GBICs (2)
-GeForce GTX690 graphics card installed and tested
-nVidia K4000 video card installed and tested
-RRX when I get my dragon upgrade
-Windows 7 Ultimate 64b OS installed
 
luigivaltulini said:
thanks Jeff...;)

yes Ketch try 295X2 i think this card i a very devil in Open Cl ....
i wait your test ;)


ciao
GIgi
Click to expand...

That is the idea Gigi,

let's see how fast we can get one tested by the guys over at Silverdraft on their Demon stations, and not only their Top of the line originally tested with single and dual w9100.


Chris Henze said:
After much consideration and sadness at there being no real Apple solution, here's the system I just bought from JMR.

-Dual CPU mother board with Xeon® CPUs type E5-2650V2 2.6GHz 8-core (two CPUs with active cooler kits installed)
-64GB RAM, DDR3/ECC memory
-240GB SSD system boot drive
-Dual-port 10GbE network adapter with installed GBICs (2)
-GeForce GTX690 graphics card installed and tested
-nVidia K4000 video card installed and tested
-RRX when I get my dragon upgrade
-Windows 7 Ultimate 64b OS installed
Click to expand...

Chris, do you have Dragon?


If yes what are the results at 6k Full Rez in RCX? Can it play smoothly?
 
Chris Henze said:
After much consideration and sadness at there being no real Apple solution, here's the system I just bought from JMR.

-Dual CPU mother board with Xeon® CPUs type E5-2650V2 2.6GHz 8-core (two CPUs with active cooler kits installed)
-64GB RAM, DDR3/ECC memory
-240GB SSD system boot drive
-Dual-port 10GbE network adapter with installed GBICs (2)
-GeForce GTX690 graphics card installed and tested
-nVidia K4000 video card installed and tested
-RRX when I get my dragon upgrade
-Windows 7 Ultimate 64b OS installed
Click to expand...


Why the K4000 GPU? Seriously, it does nothing but get in the way… It can act as GUI card in Resolve, but that was more of a concern under v8. The performance loss to using your primary GPU as both GUI and compute is minimal, maybe on the level of 5% and saves from a lot of headache in other apps where they just want to use your primary GPU for everything (Adobe).

Be sure in RC-X that you un-check the K4000 for CUDA acceleration and select the two GTX680's that appear in the list. Currently RC-X only supports one GPU, even though you can select them all. And the K4000 is significantly slower than the GPUs on that 690 card.

The GTX690 is an awesome card. It's a more powerful CUDA card than a Titan for software that supports multiple GPUs. The down side is the 3GB per onboard GPU and it's a power hog taking dual 8pins and up to 395W.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
Why the K4000 GPU? Seriously, it does nothing but get in the way… It can act as GUI card in Resolve, but that was more of a concern under v8. The performance loss to using your primary GPU as both GUI and compute is minimal, maybe on the level of 5% and saves from a lot of headache in other apps where they just want to use your primary GPU for everything (Adobe).

Be sure in RC-X that you un-check the K4000 for CUDA acceleration and select the two GTX680's that appear in the list. Currently RC-X only supports one GPU, even though you can select them all. And the K4000 is significantly slower than the GPUs on that 690 card.

The GTX690 is an awesome card. It's a more powerful CUDA card than a Titan for software that supports multiple GPUs. The down side is the 3GB per onboard GPU and it's a power hog taking dual 8pins and up to 395W.
Click to expand...


Sorry Jeff... Had to do it... Don't hate me... :)


http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?115938-Jeff-s-Dragon-Machine-Let-s-do-it-Jeff-)
 
Running Windows 7 64Bit on nMP for TB GPU support gives either 16 or 20GB of total GPU memory with 290 or 295X2. A complete TB enclosure with GPU ranges from ~$1700 for R290 to ~$2800 with R295X2. Ideally, the cooling block for the 295X2 would mount in the power supply portion of the kit (Like the Sonnet Echo III) with the cabling routed properly. The question is, are two throttled R9 cards better than one R290? This is all under the assumption that there is multi-GPU software being used which would leave you with (2) R280's (D700's) and 1 R290 or 295X2

If you're crafty enough, you can build a 10 Core/12 Core nMP for $7000-7500, bringing your total cost to $8500-10000 depending on your external GPU selection. Honestly, that's what we're doing when we build a custom PC anyway - finding parts and putting it together. The advantage here is that your footprint is much smaller, you can run either OS (dual GPU only in OSX) and you technically have more PCIe slots via TB daisy chaining so long as you don't oversaturate a given bus. I have a feeling we reach diminishing returns with anything beyond an R290 in a TB enclosure and migrating the R295X2 into a PC or TB3 chassis down the road just lends itself to other GPU's being released in the coming months anyway. I'd say save the money and see what 3 R9 cards does for you.

Which brings me to my next question - does anyone have specs on a TB2 RR-X handling 6K FF? My Echo III is at Sonnet under repair so I can't really gauge much in the way of performance.
 
I was not happy with the RRX + Sonnet III TB2 enclosure, but this is because I intended to use to with the MBPr... And realized that RRX will really only be as great as it can be if incorporated within a Tower and not as an external... At list such has been my experience and main reason why I sold it...

Reason why I am here with this thread... :)
 
So no experience with the RRX on a nMP? I have a decent understanding of rMBP performance with it but haven't fired up the Echo with the nMP yet (or RRX).
 
sitting here working with 5k files on my new 8 core mac pro on a 4k monitor....and am actually wondering...how does one view 6K files at full res? at 100%? if i use the the entire monitor as a second screen viewer is still only get 75% with 5k files....full res 6k might get me 50%(which would be the same as running it at half res....or am i off on that?
tried resolve btw: it actually plays 5k better then rcx and fcpx and it uses more ram.....rcx actually seems to play back red raw files the slowest out of the 3?
all this makes me think that we will see quite a bit of improvement form the software side...
i would love to get some dragon files to play with...
i also use my system to pull stills (from every shoot) and i am pretty sure i will be able to get along fine without RRX....i can easily see focus and scrub through footage right now.....would like to see if that is still the case with dragon footage...
 
RCX settings of Full with Fit Width or Fit Both in order to see at entire image at Full Screen which is the best Still to Pool, I only go to 100% with the actual Pulled Still Frame Grabs to choose final ones to use.

I have tone of Dragon footage I could upload some were but unfortunately we'll be at a super slow WiFi connection for the days to come and won't be able to upload...
 
KETCH ROSSi said:
RCX settings of Full with Fit Width or Fit Both in order to see at entire image at Full Screen which is the best Still to Pool, I only go to 100% with the actual Pulled Still Frame Grabs to choose final ones to use.
Click to expand...
even on a 4k monitor RCX can't show you 100% FF pixel per pixel and see the entire image...so if you choose to show Full and fit (width or both) you are only seeing the image at 30%?40%? maybe 50%? so you could really set your resolution at 1/4 or 1/2, fit both, it would probably be the exact same image on your display....
setting to Full AND viewing at 100% gives you a pixel pixel for pixel view...but it will be severely cropped even on a 4k screen and pretty much useless on everything else....
 
paul schefz said:
even on a 4k monitor RCX can't show you 100% FF pixel per pixel and see the entire image...so if you choose to show Full and fit (width or both) you are only seeing the image at 30%?40%? maybe 50%? so you could really set your resolution at 1/4 or 1/2, fit both, it would probably be the exact same image on your display....
setting to Full AND viewing at 100% gives you a pixel pixel for pixel view...but it will be severely cropped even on a 4k screen and pretty much useless on everything else....
Click to expand...


Correct, partially, as when you set Rez at Full, even when viewing it at Fit Both, it allows you to really see the difference within an image that is in focus and on spot, vs seen that same image at 1/2.

Well, at list for me is not enough, and I know I have severe eye problems, but were glasses of course, still I am good only when at Full Rez on RCX to pool Stil Frames, and then I go at 100% to view critical focus zones to choose my best frames out of those that I preselected.
 
paul schefz said:
tried resolve btw: it actually plays 5k better then rcx and fcpx and it uses more ram.....rcx actually seems to play back red raw files the slowest out of the 3?
Click to expand...

Correct. As I mentioned above, RC-X isn't multi-threaded very well to take advantage of all your CPU cores and currently only uses one GPU.

all this makes me think that we will see quite a bit of improvement form the software side…
Click to expand...

Yes, but it's a slow process. Historically, REDCINE was multithreaded and actually handled 4 to 6 threads rather well. Once REDCINE-X came along, RED was optimizing for the Rocket as opposed to multithreaded CPU operation and that aspect of the software has suffered. Lately they have been concentrating on GPU acceleration and this part of it is becoming quite impressive. Once we gain multiple GPU processing abilities and hopefully a shift back to multithreaded processing, we could see a huge performance gain.

i would love to get some dragon files to play with...
i also use my system to pull stills (from every shoot) and i am pretty sure i will be able to get along fine without RRX....i can easily see focus and scrub through footage right now.....would like to see if that is still the case with dragon footage...
Click to expand...

Of the Dragon footage I have right now, I run it at half resolution and I scrub through and play it back just fine without a hitch. That's on both an 8-core nMP, HP Z820, etc.. They will all play back full resolution as Ketch is talking about, but given the limitations of RC-X at the moment, there really is not much advantage between these systems. All the extra cores and GPUs don't amount to anything if the software doesn't use it. I usually keep at half res for both 5K and even the little bit of 6K I have. Endlessly looping and trying to tweak the look or whatever will bog down to much at full resolution.

Ketch has put me on the spot with his other thread and I'll see what I can offer here and there. Both of these threads really are the same topic. I'll do some more defined Dragon testing as I get my camera back from RED this week (hopefully, they received it last tuesday for the upgrade). I have a Titan Z GPU inbound at some point around May 15 and will offer up my thoughts. For a workstation configuration or two, I'll propose what will offer the best multi-purpose use for Adobe CC, Resolve 10 (possibly 11 beta at some point soon) and will also consider RC-X performance to some extent. However, the reality of it is that RC-X is hampered by its CPU usage more than anything else. It will also be interesting to see how the Rocket-X plays into this too. I'm awaiting info from RED about availability. And as of the last reports I've seen, RR-X abilities had not been fully implemented.

Mention above about using RR-X or GPU via Thunderbolt… It seems like a nice idea, but RR-X is 5+ times more powerful than the original Rocket and current GPUs can more than saturate a PCIe v2 X16 slot, which is more than 4X the bandwidth of a Thunderbolt2 port. So connecting such a card in an expander via Thunderbolt can be useful for certain mobile setups or clutch situations. It's not a solution I want to use on a daily basis in an ideal desktop or studio workflow.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
Correct. As I mentioned above, RC-X isn't multi-threaded very well to take advantage of all your CPU cores and currently only uses one GPU.



Yes, but it's a slow process. Historically, REDCINE was multithreaded and actually handled 4 to 6 threads rather well. Once REDCINE-X came along, RED was optimizing for the Rocket as opposed to multithreaded CPU operation and that aspect of the software has suffered. Lately they have been concentrating on GPU acceleration and this part of it is becoming quite impressive. Once we gain multiple GPU processing abilities and hopefully a shift back to multithreaded processing, we could see a huge performance gain.



Of the Dragon footage I have right now, I run it at half resolution and I scrub through and play it back just fine without a hitch. That's on both an 8-core nMP, HP Z820, etc.. They will all play back full resolution as Ketch is talking about, but given the limitations of RC-X at the moment, there really is not much advantage between these systems. All the extra cores and GPUs don't amount to anything if the software doesn't use it. I usually keep at half res for both 5K and even the little bit of 6K I have. Endlessly looping and trying to tweak the look or whatever will bog down to much at full resolution.

Ketch has put me on the spot with his other thread and I'll see what I can offer here and there. Both of these threads really are the same topic. I'll do some more defined Dragon testing as I get my camera back from RED this week (hopefully, they received it last tuesday for the upgrade). I have a Titan Z GPU inbound at some point around May 15 and will offer up my thoughts. For a workstation configuration or two, I'll propose what will offer the best multi-purpose use for Adobe CC, Resolve 10 (possibly 11 beta at some point soon) and will also consider RC-X performance to some extent. However, the reality of it is that RC-X is hampered by its CPU usage more than anything else. It will also be interesting to see how the Rocket-X plays into this too. I'm awaiting info from RED about availability. And as of the last reports I've seen, RR-X abilities had not been fully implemented.

Mention above about using RR-X or GPU via Thunderbolt… It seems like a nice idea, but RR-X is 5+ times more powerful than the original Rocket and current GPUs can more than saturate a PCIe v2 X16 slot, which is more than 4X the bandwidth of a Thunderbolt2 port. So connecting such a card in an expander via Thunderbolt can be useful for certain mobile setups or clutch situations. It's not a solution I want to use on a daily basis in an ideal desktop or studio workflow.
Click to expand...


Sorry Jeff... :)


Didn't really think it thru, wanted to really condiment you on your insane knowledge base and honored by giving you a thread about it...

But you are right, they really are about the same thing, so please fill free to "MERGE" them were and how you see best fit.
 
Hi. Can anyone recommend a GPU for a 2010 Mac Pro 8 Core to at least get as close to real time 1/2 good debayer transcodes to Prores 422 1920x1080 from 6k or 5k Dragon footage as an interim measure as my Dragons arrive soon but the RR-X is still on back-order. I am not concerned with real time playback at 4k at this point, but need to have a fast on-set transcoding solution for my DIT's.
 
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