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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

DJI RONIN - independent review and in-depth test

David Beique said:
Any tests done with heavier lenses? I haven't found much information on it, but I was interested in how well the Ronin handled an Epic with a RED 17-50 for example. Thanks for doing this review by the way, I'm currently waiting to purchase a Ronin myself and between this thread and related Ronin threads, I'm definitely sold on getting one.
Click to expand...

David - this I have scheduled for next week. Going to push the camera config to the max of the 16 lbs and see which lenses fit and how it performs...

:sifone: Peter
 
muhammad said:
Hey Everyone,
The Ronin has been Designed for heavy setups as has been repeatedly pointed out in this thread; I would love to know what would be the minimum Weight required for its motors to function at their intended performance level since its said light weight camera are not preferable with the Ronin with respect to its capabilities. I apologise if this has been asked and answered and also apologise if its a foolish question as i am new to this technology and looking everywhere to learn more.

My 1st post on reduser by the way.lol
Click to expand...

That is interesting question. The lightest camera so far I have tried was a bare-bone 7D. I will see what is the minimum required...

:sifone: Peter
 
Devin Forbes said:
Do you know of any AC Adapters in development for the Ronin? We plan on using it as a remote head on a jib, and would prefer not to run off of battery.
Click to expand...

Devin - the battery on the Ronin lasts 4 hrs in the worst case scenarios (running full 3x FIZ and wireless HD off of it). In more average configurations - lets say with just focus and wireless HD - I am getting average of 6 hrs use from the battery. Without follow-focus and HD I have had it run for close to 8 hrs...
Given that the battery swap takes less then 1 minute - I don't see the point of developing AC solution. I have never operated jib/crane for 4 hrs without a single break...
Having said that - this should not be difficult. I just don't see there being enough interest to make it viable for DJI - or even some small accessory designer / manufacturer like myself...

:sifone: Peter
 
Peter Majtan said:
David - this I have scheduled for next week. Going to push the camera config to the max of the 16 lbs and see which lenses fit and how it performs...

:sifone: Peter
Click to expand...

Excellent, I'll keep an eye out for any updates. I actually just placed my order on a Ronin but I'm told it won't ship until around mid-August. I can't wait! Thanks again!
 
We all know its a heavy rig.

Question is... how does the stabilization compare to the Movi M10. From experience the M10 just works! The DJI Zenmuze line worked OK, did not nail it all the time (shake and horizon drift).

I'd really like to 1st hand from some one with the 1st batch of Ronins how it really is at 24fps.

This video does not deminstrate jack $hi%!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjCPWYgckF8

This is just a beta but not impressed compared to movi footage - its simlar to alexmos.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJBqyjtLpdQ

If you have used it in production, please pass on your expericances compared to movi (just footage wise).

Thx, J
 
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Yes, well observed Jason.

We don't know how much the occilation, creep and heavy use of slow mo is down to the user and not the device itself. It's certainly possible to get occilation on all gimbals if you balance them incorrectly (in the case of the M10, you have to do a pretty bad job or bump up the stiffness settings absurdly high).

But what I'd like to stress to a lot of prospective buyers is that it is not yet known if you can do everything you can do on Freefly gimbals with other gimbals. Don't suppose that when you get your gimbal you will be able to do all the stuff you saw in the Freefly videos because you saw snippets of (often HFR) footage from the other guys.

The most important, significant thing is the stiffness you can get out of a gimbal, because it speaks to the structural integrity, rigidity of the hardware, and the efficiency of the software to harmonize the three motors. The more stiffness the more you can do with the gimbal and the better the results. There's a moment in this video where a tech bumps the gimbal to test it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvIsa2wMSiY&t=1m2s

On lesser gear this would crash the system basically.

In the beta deer footage you can see subtle wobble even on slow, static shots. It kind of looks like hand held smoothed out with a bit of warp stabiliser. This is a subtle amount of occilation occurring from the motors.

Brushless motors make 100s or 1000s of adjustments per second, and this high frequency can feed into the rig from the motor, and be 'read' back from the same or other motors as input and compensated for, creating a feedback loop.

All this to say that it's a non trivial thing to make a gimbal. Don't let the low price point of the competitors fool you, it's a very cunning engineering project to pull these things off. I understand that not everyone can justify the cost of a Freefly system, but their prices aren't arbitrary. They design all their own stuff, write all their own code. There's nothing off the shelf there. So if you are going to drop a couple of K on a less expensive gimbal, don't visualise doing stuff the Freefly ones are doing until you've definitively proven to yourself that the gimbal you chose does what you expect it to.

I have nothing against competition, even though I am a Freefly fanboy - but I am one for good reason! And I know that feel when you get something and it all falls apart in a puff of false-advertising smoke - even if it was 'just' a couple of grand.

I'm not referring to the Ronin or any spesific gimbal, just that as a group they are unproven in production in the sense the MoVI is.

The power of the Freelfy launch was their ability to throw the gimbal into crazy situations because they had already honed their product to a high degree.



jason toth said:
We all know its a heavy rig.

Question is... how does the stabilization compare to the Movi M10. From experience the M10 just works! The DJI Zenmuze line worked OK, did not nail it all the time (shake and horizon drift).

I'd really like to 1st hand from some one with the 1st batch of Ronins how it really is at 24fps.

This video does not deminstrate jake $hi%!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjCPWYgckF8

This is just a beta but not impressed compared to movi footage - its simlar to alexmos.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJBqyjtLpdQ

If you have used it in production, please pass on your expericances compared to movi (just footage wise).

Thx, J
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
jason toth said:
We all know its a heavy rig.

Question is... how does the stabilization compare to the Movi M10. From experience the M10 just works! The DJI Zenmuze line worked OK, did not nail it all the time (shake and horizon drift).

I'd really like to 1st hand from some one with the 1st batch of Ronins how it really is at 24fps.

This video does not deminstrate jack $hi%!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjCPWYgckF8

This is just a beta but not impressed compared to movi footage - its simlar to alexmos.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJBqyjtLpdQ

If you have used it in production, please pass on your expericances compared to movi (just footage wise).

Thx, J
Click to expand...

Jason, that second video you have linked is mine - and indeed that was a beta right out of the box without any tuning. The purpose of that was me getting to know the gimbal and understand how it behaves before I dived in to the tweaking, proper testing.
It worked in a way the far exceeded my expectations and as there was a huge outcry for footage at that time - I have decided to post it. If you read the description you will see that this is the worse it will ever look in my hands.
Fast forward 3 firmware and 2 hardware revisions before the Ronin even started to ship - and it is a different beast all together.
The only problem with what you are asking for is that footage that I actually shoot for clients simply can't be shared online - not yet anyway.
And when I don't shoot for a client - I am super busy with R&D and further testing.
Having said that - I have also used the M10 on several occasions and IMHO as good of a gimbal as the M10 is - it certainly doesn't "just work".
Especially when you load it with RED, PL lens, MB+filters and wireless FIZ and HD. It takes a lot of time and testing to get it "tuned in" and you can clearly tell it is working at its limits and it doesn't take much to push it over...
The Ronin already as it is in the hands of an experienced operator(*) can do everything the MOVI can and then some...

(*) - I have highlighted this as this is the key issue here. If you have used MOVI before you know that your first attempts were far from ideal. None of the gimbals operate themselves. You will get better with every consecutive use and this is why today you see experienced MOVI operators to pick up M10 and "just make it work". They had over a year to get here. With the Ronin only just being delivered to the hands of end users - it will be few months before anyone can call themselves an "experienced Ronin operator". This is not that different from the DP dilemma. Folks who have shot on film for ages have worked hard to become full-fledged DP's. Picking up RED doesn't make anyone so - and it took a while for the talented folks to get in grips with the RED and start producing amazing result - now rivalling film itself. Give it few months or even a year - and then compare footage from a truly experienced Ronin operator with footage from anything else.

I have used both for roughly about the same time and already I can do so much more with the Ronin - and I can do it faster and easier at the same time.
The MOVI is a great tool and it really opened my eyes to the possibilities of 3-axis gimbals in our industry.
The RONIN has picked up the torch and continues to carry it forward...

If today you put the two in front of me for free to use on a RED shoot - I would pick the RONIN hands down without even hesitating...
MOVI will continue to cash in on the advantage its operators will have for just a little longer. But the time is ticking...

:sifone: Peter
 
Peter I'd be curious why you wouldn't use the MoVI for a professional setup.

wyfV4Lu.jpg


You're right that you need a good operator to get professional results but as you point out, that's down to experience. The MoVI does 'just work' from a setup point of view. The first job I did was a horrific 6 minute choreographed one-er with the birds-nest Frankenrig seen in my RU avatar, made of velcro and dismantled parts running a heavy V-Lock and analogue Bartech. That was about 4 days after it arrived. And I was new to production back then.

Let's just wait and see - that's my point, we don't know yet except from a few involved anecdotes.

Then there's the whole feature set of software tools that MoVI offers, built out of an in-house design foundation. Ronin might have arrived at the NAB 2013 watermark (we will see) but Freefly have had a year and a half to develop.

All I am asking for is objectivity, detail and frankness in the comparisons - not blanket statements.

Peter Majtan said:
Jason, that second video you have linked is mine - and indeed that was a beta right out of the box without any tuning. The purpose of that was me getting to know the gimbal and understand how it behaves before I dived in to the tweaking, proper testing.
It worked in a way the far exceeded my expectations and as there was a huge outcry for footage at that time - I have decided to post it. If you read the description you will see that this is the worse it will ever look in my hands.
Fast forward 3 firmware and 2 hardware revisions before the Ronin even started to ship - and it is a different beast all together.
The only problem with what you are asking for is that footage that I actually shoot for clients simply can't be shared online - not yet anyway.
And when I don't shoot for a client - I am super busy with R&D and further testing.
Having said that - I have also used the M10 on several occasions and IMHO as good of a gimbal as the M10 is - it certainly doesn't "just work".
Especially when you load it with RED, PL lens, MB+filters and wireless FIZ and HD. It takes a lot of time and testing to get it "tuned in" and you can clearly tell it is working at its limits and it doesn't take much to push it over...
The Ronin already as it is in the hands of an experienced operator(*) can do everything the MOVI can and then some...

(*) - I have highlighted this as this is the key issue here. If you have used MOVI before you know that your first attempts were far from ideal. None of the gimbals operate themselves. You will get better with every consecutive use and this is why today you see experienced MOVI operators to pick up M10 and "just make it work". They had over a year to get here. With the Ronin only just being delivered to the hands of end users - it will be few months before anyone can call themselves an "experienced Ronin operator". This is not that different from the DP dilemma. Folks who have shot on film for ages have worked hard to become full-fledged DP's. Picking up RED doesn't make anyone so - and it took a while for the talented folks to get in grips with the RED and start producing amazing result - now rivalling film itself. Give it few months or even a year - and then compare footage from a truly experienced Ronin operator with footage from anything else.

I have used both for roughly about the same time and already I can do so much more with the Ronin - and I can do it faster and easier at the same time.
The MOVI is a great tool and it really opened my eyes to the possibilities of 3-axis gimbals in our industry.
The RONIN has picked up the torch and continues to carry it forward...

If today you put the two in front of me for free to use on a RED shoot - I would pick the RONIN hands down without even hesitating...
MOVI will continue to cash in on the advantage its operators will have for just a little longer. But the time is ticking...

:sifone: Peter
Click to expand...
 
Peter Majtan said:
PICTURES:

Ronin_cine_hero_right.jpg





Peter - are you able to open the side handle door fully and replace redvolts with the CMotion setup where it is in this shot? Looks very tight. I'm thinking about going with the Freefly CF side mount and either IDX 7s or the GMP 95 V mount. Curious if you can easily swap batteries with this setup?
Click to expand...
 
jason dewey said:
Peter Majtan said:
PICTURES:

Ronin_cine_hero_right.jpg





Peter - are you able to open the side handle door fully and replace redvolts with the CMotion setup where it is in this shot? Looks very tight. I'm thinking about going with the Freefly CF side mount and either IDX 7s or the GMP 95 V mount. Curious if you can easily swap batteries with this setup?
Click to expand...

If you note the red tape on the rear CF rod bellow the camera - that is my side mark after I have balanced the setup carefully. Now when I need to swap the battery I just lose the side-to-side axis, move the camera over to the SIDE SSD MODULE side, swap the REDVOLT, slide the camera back to the red tape mark and tighten the axis. All up it takes less then a minute. Not ideal, but it solves the problem while I am working on my V-lock solution. Using the side mount from FREEFLY and compact battery - like the E-7s will present no problems what so ever. But for those stuck with the REDVOLTs for now - this is the way I do it. The. C-motion is not the problem - the proximity of the SIDE HANDLE and the way it's door open against the tilt axis is...

:sifone: Peter
Click to expand...
 
Brett Harrison said:
Peter I'd be curious why you wouldn't use the MoVI for a professional setup.
You're right that you need a good operator to get professional results but as you point out, that's down to experience. The MoVI does 'just work' from a setup point of view. The first job I did was a horrific 6 minute choreographed one-er with the birds-nest Frankenrig seen in my RU avatar, made of velcro and dismantled parts running a heavy V-Lock and analogue Bartech. That was about 4 days after it arrived. And I was new to production back then.

Let's just wait and see - that's my point, we don't know yet except from a few involved anecdotes.

Then there's the whole feature set of software tools that MoVI offers, built out of an in-house design foundation. Ronin might have arrived at the NAB 2013 watermark (we will see) but Freefly have had a year and a half to develop.

All I am asking for is objectivity, detail and frankness in the comparisons - not blanket statements.
Click to expand...

I did not say I would not use it - I said that it was pushing the limits of what the M10 can do. I hope you are not suggesting otherwise...

My statements are based on my own personal experience with both gimbals. Have you tried the Ronin yet? Because ironically you have made few statements about it on your own - I hope that they are based on more then just observing YouTube footage...

I am glad we agree on the fact that ultimately it will come down to the operator...
So let's wait few months and see what people start delivering in real-world scenarios...

Cheers

:sifone: Peter
 
I had a quick look at it at Cinegear, which is why I limit my statements about it to the footage I've observed (and even then I qualify those statements) - I haven't made any statements beyond that.

I'd argue that you would want an experienced gimbal operator (currently only MoVI operators) to evaluate the Ronin. I'm not aware of any such comparison (except for personal accounts made to me).

Peter Majtan said:
I did not say I would not use it - I said that it was pushing the limits of what the M10 can do. I hope you are not suggesting otherwise...

My statements are based on my own personal experience with both gimbals. Have you tried the Ronin yet? Because ironically you have made few statements about it on your own - I hope that they are based on more then just observing YouTube footage...

I am glad we agree on the fact that ultimately it will come down to the operator...
So let's wait few months and see what people start delivering in real-world scenarios...

Cheers

:sifone: Peter
Click to expand...
 
Hi Alen (post #209),

Alen Watts said:
Hi Peter,

"I use Futaba controllers (which is what the DJI uses as well). The best solution for mounting a monitor I have found so far is this...:"

What about the black transmitter / controller that comes with the Ronin? Why aren't you using that? I was going to use the one that came with the Ronin.

"It has a balanced offset to clip on your neck strap...

http://www.tarot-rc.com/index.php?ma...oducts_id=1157"

Can this handle the weight of the monitor + monitor power source (battery) + Paralinx receiver + battery? It wouldn't snap the neck strap hook off the transmitter?

The monitor I'm going to use is this one-

http://www.musthd.com/products/7-in...input-output-focus-assist-false-color-77.html

Will have a Sony F970 battery and Paralinx receiver with a USB power source to power the Paralinx on the back of monitor. The monitor probably isn't as good as the TVLogic. But will do the job.

I'll be using its baby brother on the Ronin-

http://www.musthd.com/products/5-in...-with-focus-assist-marker-false-color-41.html
Click to expand...

The MustHD 7" monitor is NOT COMPATIBLE with the HDMI port on the RED Scarlet. (I have a Scarlet Dragon DSMC, but I'm pretty sure it's the same on the original Scarlet). The monitor works if you attach it to another HDMI source like a blu-ray player, and the Dragon works on various HDMI monitors, but this combination DOES NOT WORK. Just a black screen with the Brain HDMI enabled...I have no idea why.

It's nighttime in China so I have no reply from MustHD, but the following text is BURIED in their Support FAQ page:

"MustHD on-camera field monitor can be compatible with most DSLR and video cameras, like Canon, Gopro, Panasonic, Nikon, and so on. There are cameras that can not be compatible, like Red epic, Red scarlet camera and Blackmagic Production Camera 4K. "

I can confirm that it DOES NOT WORK directly connected (am I now $369.00 poorer?), although maybe it will work on the other side of the Paralinx receiver...I dunno.
 
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Bob - I suspect that is because RED doesn't output the PsF (progressive segmented frame) mode - only "pure" progressive mode. So the monitor must be able to support proper progressive "P" mode in order to work with RED.
The PsF works by sending every other line of a progressive frame in a separate "interlaced" field - which is then combined back into the progressive frame.
This was a cheap work-around back in the days of HV10/HV20 where Canon wanted to enable progressive frames on a interlaced recording system.
PsF is really just an interlaced format and works in 50i and 60i modes. You have to have a progressive captured frame by the sensor - but it is then split into two "interlaced" fields to be recorded. When played back the two fields will combine into proper progressive frame.
RED does not support interlaced formats - and this is why many of the cheaper HD monitors that only work on interlaced systems will not work...

:sifone: Peter
 
Try setting the HDMi refresh rate to 30hz or 24hz.

settings->display->monitor control-> brain hdmi

im guessing the monitor doesn't handle 1920x1080p at 60hz, very well may handle 30hz or 24/25hz at 1080
 
Hello all again, all I want to see if some unedited 24fps footage from the most resent Ronin firmware. Showing how it performs, the Movi does not have any secret sauce, it works pretty much perfectly becuase of the software/motors. DJI can easliy do their own as they do with the Zenmuse line up. We have 2 movi's since production demand them. BUt want to get some backups and the Ronin seams to fit the bill (literally) but want to make sure it works better then a Zenmuse or Alexmos gimbal (which are pretty damn good BUT movi is just a bit better - especially in foot steps or high vibration from a drone, movi just takes it out in a few minutes of settings while alexmos can take hours to perfect)
 
DJI Ronin just came through the door. First impression is how well designed and built this device is. Its packaged well too. Very happy, we are going to have some fun with this thing.
 
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