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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

DJI RONIN Group Buy

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Sabyasachi Patra said:
Signing NDA is standard practice. If the clauses in an NDA are not strong enough to serve as a credible detriment then people will violate NDAs left, right and centre. I know of people becoming numbed when they read the terms and conditions of NDA first time in their life.

PS: You always have the option to sue the hell out of a person if he wrongfully accuses you.
Click to expand...

The date of that cartoonish NDA / Employment Agreement (?!?) was around mid-June. Long after it was appropriate to drop that bomb. My experience with Chinese businesses is that the negotiations are never over - so if you don't have real-time power at the table you are screwed. Once I delivered the customers to the door . . . my value was done in their mind. Who needs a RED User asking basic questions on behalf of the Interested buyers when you have the customer list in hand and can enlist guys like Peter and Ketch to aggressively promote the product?

Anytime DJI wants to jump in here and set Peter straight to the facts about my personal and professional integrity would be great. Once that happens I will walk away from that topic. Until then I have a real problem with how this went down and the ongoing damage inflicted on my reputation by them and their agents.

Standing by
 
Terry VerHaar said:
Would you have signed a mind-numbing NDA with a Chinese company if it acknowledged your acceptance of jurisdiction in a Chinese court? LOL
Click to expand...

All I am saying is NDA is a standard practice. In one of the posts he has even claimed that he has signed an NDA. So am completely surprised by his statements and whatever I am writing here has no malice towards him. It was an honest comment and Terry's defense forced me to write this.

If I would have started a group buy with that chinese company, sing praises that the company has been owned by an engineer, size etc etc etc then obviously you are in your right senses and not a kid jumping with joy at the sight of a candy. So why not sign an NDA? He knew DJI is "not an American company". He knew DJI's origins etc.

Savour some of these statements copied and pasted here and then make your own conclusions.

"DJI has been making Octo gimbals for years - AMP likewise. DJI knows what they are doing and have 1500 employees to get shit produced and shipped. It will happen and it will be solid."

" I now have a direct line into DJI so can provide you the details when they become facts. DJI is not a hype company - they are owned by an Engineer so they communicate as such." (#408)"

"I expect DJI to go the Toyota / Lexus route (setting up a premium level dealer network) since they currently sell some $10 RC parts through mail order and Hobby Lobby so cannot be expected to provide Hollywood Studio service as would be expected of a $5,000 professional product without market based service segmentation.....

. . this is a 1st gen product so it will have some issues which is why I look at strength of the companies behind the product/service. For those that want 100% reliability you might want to stand on the sidelines for a couple years until everything settles. I'm jumping into the pool now with DJI/AMP to get the party started"

 
Frankly speaking I don't know why they would send Beta units to Peter and Ketch and not to you as well. NDA clause should be same for you as well as Ketch and Peter. I am surprised if there is a clause in the NDA which forces the beta testers to bash up others/ aggressively promote the products. Promoting is for salesmen. As I understand, Beta testing is normally used to give impartial feedback. If not, then those people will lose their reputation and in the long run it harms.

Don't think that redusers are some commodity that you are handing over to DJI. People will make their own decisions to buy or not to buy. Please don't challenge the intelligence of people here.

Zeb B said:
The date of that cartoonish NDA / Employment Agreement (?!?) was around mid-June. Long after it was appropriate to drop that bomb. My experience with Chinese businesses is that the negotiations are never over - so if you don't have real-time power at the table you are screwed. Once I delivered the customers to the door . . . my value was done in their mind. Who needs a RED User asking basic questions on behalf of the Interested buyers when you have the customer list in hand and can enlist guys like Peter and Ketch to aggressively promote the product?

Anytime DJI wants to jump in here and set Peter straight to the facts about my personal and professional integrity would be great. Once that happens I will walk away from that topic. Until then I have a real problem with how this went down and the ongoing damage inflicted on my reputation by them and their agents.

Standing by
Click to expand...
 
Sabyasachi Patra said:
Frankly speaking I don't know why they would send Beta units to Peter and Ketch and not to you as well. NDA clause should be same for you as well as Ketch and Peter. I am surprised if there is a clause in the NDA which forces the beta testers to bash up others/ aggressively promote the products. Promoting is for salesmen. As I understand, Beta testing is normally used to give impartial feedback. If not, then those people will lose their reputation and in the long run it harms.

Don't think that redusers are some commodity that you are handing over to DJI. People will make their own decisions to buy or not to buy. Please don't challenge the intelligence of people here.
Click to expand...

An NDA is one thing - demanding that I sign an Employment Agreement with a stated damage value of $200,000 (to be determined by a Chinese judge) before I get the decision of when or if I will receive a beta unit is not "standard practice" in my view. Remember this was dropped in mid-June which was about 2 weeks before proposed ship date and well after money was being taken for orders so any "beta" was essentially a final shipping unit and should therefore be free from an onerous NDA.

As for my evolving comments. The deal changed - so did my impressions of DJI and my ability to serve the RED User buyers. If I am essentially a DJI contract employee with a $200,00 hammer over my head then I can hardly speak freely. If Peter and Ketch signed that same contract then they are, IMHO, compromised as an independent voice.

It is easy for anyone to pick me apart after the fact. Remember this: I was the one who had the balls and insight to put this deal together day 2 of NAB. I have never done anything here that did not serve the RED User's best interest. All this was with the backdrop of the BS4 GB which looked at the time as too many people not demanding answers to basic questions.

If you want to wave the Ronin flag . . . great. When Peter takes shots at my personal and professional integrity or you pluck my statements out of context then that is a different matter since you both have one side of the story and therefore no place to judge.

As for my Made in China vs the USA: if given a choice I will always choose the brand that pays the full price of making their product. The Helix, as we know it today, wasn't an option at NAB. It was developed right in front of us here by Hein interacting with fellow RED Users. I have since visited with Hein and personally connected with his story of building a company from nothing while playing by some of the hardest rules on the planet. Rules that you might want to insist your country of India abide by since they are way more sustainable and provide a higher quality of life.

Hein made a big bet on RED as a place to launch his product. In my view he would have been better served to pursue the huge DSLR market but he wanted to start here. That is a big challenge since the RED universe is a fraction of the DSLR market and the camera packages and users are way more demanding. He has manned up and for that he has my respect.

I respect those who are actively in the game and taking risks - not armchair critics who second guess those who are proactively making shit happen.
 
Hey guys,

It's not really my business, but can we agree on the following things?

1. It's not cool to say things about someone in an online forum that you would feel uncomfortable saying to their face.

2. race or nationality has nothing to do with gimbals or the film business whatsoever

3. Zeb was trying to do something nice for the community, things changed direction.

4. Dji was trying to do something nice for the community and decided to give the entire "worldwide filmmaking community" a group buy by universally lowering the Ronin price across the board.

5. The "gimbal wars" thing has gotten a little out of hand. DJI had the zenmuse brushless gimbal a long time before there was anything like it out there. Freefly took the helicopter gimbal concept, refined the hell out of the usability, and put handles on it for handheld use.

here's what's exciting to me - and it reminds me of the era I grew up in - the personal computer age.

we All have the chance to be pioneers, expand what's possible in filmmaking and technology.

Let's not spoil it by being dicks to each other. Believe me, I used to be a forum dick myself. My rule is : if I would be embarrassed to say it to someone's face, I try not to post it on a forum. It's easy to forget how powerful our words are.

Let's try to be kinder with our words and powerful in the images we make. Ultimately it's all about the cinematography and the community.

respect to the worldwide film community,

dan
 
My heroes are Zeb and Peter! Not necessarily in that order. Come on guys, let's agree this just got out of hand. Sometimes we take offense when no offense is meant. Sometimes we offend when no offense is warranted. So what, who cares, you are both great guys. Why don't you both agree to forgive and forget and move on? You guys are better than this.
 
I wasn't going to jump in to this discussion of this vs. that, and this what He said vs what the other said, or what was done right or wrong in this Group Buy or what DJI does or does not as Chinese company, and even less what Zeb's position is or was or whatever...

I decided to stay completely out of this type of things and actually ever since my bashing after my short form people like Zeb itself I learned that this Forum has taken a curve in the wrong direction thanks to a bunch of new users and literally a single hand full of nay sayers haters that have nothing else to do then bash others that try really hard at their passion...

First of all, I WORK for NO ONE... I am employed by NO ONE... my last job was in 2006 when I returned broke after loosing it all, having spent over 2 years in an Hospital in Florence Italy were I underwent 17 surgeries, a Kidney Transplant and survived a Near Death experience...

That job was in Miami, or actually jobs, since I held 3 positions at 2 different Restaurants at the same time for almost a year NONE STOP 7 days a week without ever a single day off, till I got in to a bad accident that almost costed me the amputation of my left leg...

Fast forward to today and I reinvented myself over and over, finally deciding to follow my Passion and Dreams in the Film Industry no matter what and moving forward to the making of my First Feature Film... WITH NO FEAR to FAIL...

But I guess some times communities such as is REDUSER have members that are less then respectful, and surely if any one would have said it in my face I would have nocked off all their front teeth out NO DOUBT... And reached them the word "Respect".

I am a MAN of INTEGRITY... Always have been always will be!!

NDA's... With the one just singed with DJI, I now have EXACTLY 23 signed NDA's including one with RED, and since I have absolutely NOTHING to fear by my actions, I see no problem signing any of them, and that has allowed me to have a first look at things form each of the companies I have one signed with, and I fill the privileges and responsibilities to represent this companies properly yet also TRUTHFULLY, so to always represent this community and any other reader i all honesty and never serve any one with lies, because my INTEGRITY never was and never will be for sale!!

If Zeb for any reason felt not right signing an NDA fine... But He should surely stop taking CHEAP shots at a great company such as is DJI, and a great guy such as is Willis, and stop taking shots at other Reduser members.

He has started this group buy which was going as great as any group buy ever did... Then He himself brought it down single handed not DJI, not Willis, not I or Peter for that matter...

My interest has always been about making experience in the Filmmaking Industry, follow my passion, and help others in the process were I could, since NO ONE ever helped me out, I found out first hand how difficult it can be, and for this I wanted to do as much as I could to help others pass thru and assist were I could in answering their questions and when possible financially help them via free use of gear and by sharing my informed opinions about gear and so that would have clearer options on what to buy and not waist any precious time nor money... As I have done since BEFORE joining this very Community!!

Today I have a good amount of Sponsorships, and while I do not pay for the gear I receive which is also mine to keep, I still do so with the clear understanding that I do so with the goal to serve myself, the community and my followers/readers first, then the Companies that gives me their gear, and thank them by sharing any Pictures, Videos and final material shot using their gear, so to help them in their public relations and advertising thru out the Social Media Channels and communities such as this one.

But with the absolute CLEAR understanding that my shared opinions will always remain absolutely TRUTHFUL as to NEVER put my INTEGRITY in to question!!

So Zeb, please just DROPPED... And DO NOT continue to call my name in to the game like I am a 12 years old, I am a 49 year old Man and it seems that you just don't get it...

You should have had resolved your issues with DJI privately instead of attacking them and taking cheap Racist shots on the Made In China...

You jumped ship for your own reasons, fine, you chose one product vs an other fine too, but you failed miserably at this Group Buy, no matter how you sliced, and that is that!!

The fact that now DJI sliced the price down to $2,999 is an amazing thing Period!!

Communication should have been WAY clearer with you and DJI and an agreement gotten before you started the "INTERESTED" group buy, with no clear end in view, and then you come and criticize me on my last "INTERESTED" Group buy for a controller??

Get a life...

I at last HAVE GROWN TIRED of YOU... Stop making my name, as I never make yours any were else and stay OUT of my threads as I stay OUT of yours... Simple as that.

I remained in this Community even after the bashing of the Red Dress, because there are still very many fellow REDUSER that wish me to stay and continuously ask for my support advises and opinions, so I did, but at times it is because of people like you that I want to leave this community once and for all...

But I am a better man then that, and I'll stay... And not only because Jim himself asked me to...

I'll stay because one day I'll get my Movies made, and one day I'll be in a greater position then I am today, and in that day I'll be able to give back to this community in ways that NO ONE has for any community and on that day the few yet PERSISTENT "NAY" sayers and Bashers that pray on those that only have the most sincere and honest passionate interest at hand to Filmmaking and this community will be eating up all their S*IT by watching unfold GOOD fashioned Positive energy in the mist of success which instead of be kept to one self is shared with the community that helped get there!!
 
Ketch you started out sounding sensible but finishing up just shouting. I'm sitting in a hospital ER waiting room with my unwell son reading this on my phone thinking this Accessories for DSMC forum has officially left the planet. It's somewhere between a train wreck and a soap opera. Guys please get some perspective on all this.


KETCH ROSSi said:
I wasn't going to jump in to this discussion of this vs. that, and this what He said vs what the other said, or what was done right or wrong in this Group Buy or what DJI does or does not as Chinese company, and even less what Zeb's position is or was or whatever...

I decided to stay completely out of this type of things and actually ever since my bashing after my short form people like Zeb itself I learned that this Forum has taken a curve in the wrong direction thanks to a bunch of new users and literally a single hand full of nay sayers haters that have nothing else to do then bash others that try really hard at their passion...

First of all, I WORK for NO ONE... I am employed by NO ONE... my last job was in 2006 when I returned broke after loosing it all, having spent over 2 years in an Hospital in Florence Italy were I underwent 17 surgeries, a Kidney Transplant and survived a Near Death experience...

That job was in Miami, or actually jobs, since I held 3 positions at 2 different Restaurants at the same time for almost a year NONE STOP 7 days a week without ever a single day off, till I got in to a bad accident that almost costed me the amputation of my left leg...

Fast forward to today and I reinvented myself over and over, finally deciding to follow my Passion and Dreams in the Film Industry no matter what and moving forward to the making of my First Feature Film... WITH NO FEAR to FAIL...

But I guess some times communities such as is REDUSER have members that are less then respectful, and surely if any one would have said it in my face I would have nocked off all their front teeth out NO DOUBT... And reached them the word "Respect".

I am a MAN of INTEGRITY... Always have been always will be!!

NDA's... With the one just singed with DJI, I now have EXACTLY 23 signed NDA's including one with RED, and since I have absolutely NOTHING to fear by my actions, I see no problem signing any of them, and that has allowed me to have a first look at things form each of the companies I have one signed with, and I fill the privileges and responsibilities to represent this companies properly yet also TRUTHFULLY, so to always represent this community and any other reader i all honesty and never serve any one with lies, because my INTEGRITY never was and never will be for sale!!

If Zeb for any reason felt not right signing an NDA fine... But He should surely stop taking CHEAP shots at a great company such as is DJI, and a great guy such as is Willis, and stop taking shots at other Reduser members.

He has started this group buy which was going as great as any group buy ever did... Then He himself brought it down single handed not DJI, not Willis, not I or Peter for that matter...

My interest has always been about making experience in the Filmmaking Industry, follow my passion, and help others in the process were I could, since NO ONE ever helped me out, I found out first hand how difficult it can be, and for this I wanted to do as much as I could to help others pass thru and assist were I could in answering their questions and when possible financially help them via free use of gear and by sharing my informed opinions about gear and so that would have clearer options on what to buy and not waist any precious time nor money... As I have done since BEFORE joining this very Community!!

Today I have a good amount of Sponsorships, and while I do not pay for the gear I receive which is also mine to keep, I still do so with the clear understanding that I do so with the goal to serve myself, the community and my followers/readers first, then the Companies that gives me their gear, and thank them by sharing any Pictures, Videos and final material shot using their gear, so to help them in their public relations and advertising thru out the Social Media Channels and communities such as this one.

But with the absolute CLEAR understanding that my shared opinions will always remain absolutely TRUTHFUL as to NEVER put my INTEGRITY in to question!!

So Zeb, please just DROPPED... And DO NOT continue to call my name in to the game like I am a 12 years old, I am a 49 year old Man and it seems that you just don't get it...

You should have had resolved your issues with DJI privately instead of attacking them and taking cheap Racist shots on the Made In China...

You jumped ship for your own reasons, fine, you chose one product vs an other fine too, but you failed miserably at this Group Buy, no matter how you sliced, and that is that!!

The fact that now DJI sliced the price down to $2,999 is an amazing thing Period!!

Communication should have been WAY clearer with you and DJI and an agreement gotten before you started the "INTERESTED" group buy, with no clear end in view, and then you come and criticize me on my last "INTERESTED" Group buy for a controller??

Get a life...

I at last HAVE GROWN TIRED of YOU... Stop making my name, as I never make yours any were else and stay OUT of my threads as I stay OUT of yours... Simple as that.

I remained in this Community even after the bashing of the Red Dress, because there are still very many fellow REDUSER that wish me to stay and continuously ask for my support advises and opinions, so I did, but at times it is because of people like you that I want to leave this community once and for all...

But I am a better man then that, and I'll stay... And not only because Jim himself asked me to...

I'll stay because one day I'll get my Movies made, and one day I'll be in a greater position then I am today, and in that day I'll be able to give back to this community in ways that NO ONE has for any community and on that day the few yet PERSISTENT "NAY" sayers and Bashers that pray on those that only have the most sincere and honest passionate interest at hand to Filmmaking and this community will be eating up all their S*IT by watching unfold GOOD fashioned Positive energy in the mist of success which instead of be kept to one self is shared with the community that helped get there!!
Click to expand...
 
You are almost right Peter,

difference is I have been brought in without asking... As Zeb obviously just doesn't know when enough is enough... :)

I said what I had to say and that is all... Now let the drama continue to die, I really am not going to say much anymore on this thread, as I said, I had enough of seen my name brought up with assumptions of been sold out and here to do a disservice to the community I happen to Love!!

I said nothing till now, if my name wasn't brought up yet again by Zeb in dubious assumptions of wrong doing I would have stayed out...

Enough is enough...

On my hand I would NO LONGER engage... In respect to all others interested in info on the thread and not the drama...

So hope you can all move on, but i doubt...

OUT of this thread for good now... Bashing or not, I just don't care anymore... I'll limit my presence in this Forum to my own threads... :)


PS: Peter, best wishes to your son!!!
 
Here is some clips with the ronin and a stedicam, and some handheld. Althou they use a seqway and from a car with the steadicam.
http://youtu.be/LpAw9sOuo50

Please read the info on youtube before watching the clip.

Peter, I hope your son gets better soon.

Cheers!
Joel
 
Joel Arvidsson said:
Here is some clips with the ronin and a stedicam, and some handheld. Althou they use a seqway and from a car with the steadicam.
http://youtu.be/LpAw9sOuo50

Please read the info on youtube before watching the clip.

Joel
Click to expand...

This is exactly the footage what I don't want to see, it was really bad.
Question is , who is to blame, the operator, the gimbal, or both?

Bg
Alex
 
Joel Arvidsson said:
Here is some clips with the ronin and a stedicam, and some handheld. Althou they use a seqway and from a car with the steadicam.
http://youtu.be/LpAw9sOuo50

Please read the info on youtube before watching the clip.

Peter, I hope your son gets better soon.

Cheers!
Joel
Click to expand...

I agree with Alex. The regular speed stuff in this video didn't inspire much confidence. Very wobbly. They didn't get the unit until the day before shooting though so maybe it's due to lack of testing/experience/practice?
 
What I've learned from this matter is that there is no use in defending yourself from those who personally attack since it just draws you into the mud pit. My final rebuttal is that I operate with the highest integrity, I have not lied and I am not, as was just suggested above, a racist.

Good luck to all who bought into this program. My intentions have been always to serve the best interests of the RED User so in that regard I have succeeded. The aggressive and negative nature of this project via DJI's current representatives is not what I am about so I'm out. Consider the accusers agenda and history when judging me.
 
Just wanted to say that I literally had the mouse pointer over "place order" of the Movi. I even clicked and held the mouse button down before I slowly dragged it aside to the comfy white area and released it. Next second I saw Zeb's group buy and hadn't heard about the Ronin. Hopefully I'm getting it next week and even if I had found a gimbal eventually Zeb was the one who really got me into the Ronin, answering emails, getting things done.

Thanks.
 
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