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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Delays and Frustration...

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Jannard said:
If this type of presentation leads to someone asking for an additional discount, we would have to reconsider the way we communicate to our customers. And that would be a bad thing.

Jim
Click to expand...

Out of curiosity what would requesting you raise prices do to the way you communicate?:tongue:
 
Asking for a discount on this camera is absurd.

I've often thought people are too hard on Jim & Co. when I see REDs every move scrutinized here – but then it leads to improvement so it looks like there is a delicate balance of making reasonable and honest requests while not discouraging the team from being open and honest with us. So far, it seems to me that RED's development process has been nothing short of amazing – and wouldn't be as amazing if not for the community providing support, criticism and requests.

But a discount on the camera? At this price? Absurd. I'm 21 and working overtime to get ready for when my number is called – I know it will be the best money I've ever spent. Having payed for a film education at UCLA, I'd go as far as saying that the privilege of having an open dialogue with Jannard, Greame, Mullen, etc. is worth the price.
 
Jim,

I'd gladly pay 20% MORE! Hell, there are people who are offering me double what I'm paying, so who am I to complain about a short delay that only makes the camera that much better!

Thank you for offering the me the opportunity to own the best price vs. performace camera in the world!

-Thor
 
Jannard said:
From what I can tell, the nearest competing product is the newly announced Sony F35 which sells for, I am told, $350,000.

Jim
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Not to be disagreeable, but I believe the F35 only records 1080x1920 and requires a very expensive HDCAM SR VTR for transfer into your NLE. Hardly a close competitor. But, that's just me thinking...
 
stevesherrick said:
Quite honestly, Jim could have said, hey guys this is our first camera and it's as good as we can make it at the moment so give it a whirl and Red Two will be even better. But they haven't. They continue to push themselves to deliver a great camera the first time out.

Steve
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So true. Was there an increase in price for a new advanced pl mount? No.
 
No one really took this discount request seriously for a second, did they? I'm amazed it has sustained this thread for so long.
 
Finner said:
You can pay for 20% of my camera if thats what makes you happy stud.
Click to expand...

Okay, for the record, I'm happy with the pricing. :biggrin:
 
Mr.J.J.

You are my Hero...You live efter your personal Philosophy and teach through action...You have faith and inspire others to have faith...You are larger than life...Its takes a big soul to encompass the range of character you have demonstrated, from valiant bravado to authentic humility...You have a strong sence of responsbility and commitment to your vision...We love you and stand behind you with our support to the end of the line...Fight! Fight! Fight!
 
Probably Jim should learn the Business basics again.Instead working this way, shift to other way.

Give him discount for today's camera.
If he needs new PL mount $6500 extra
New Daughter/upgrade board $6500 extra
Firmware upgrades $1000 each
Redcine upgrades $500 each.
RED ONE accepts only RED branded CF Cards that are $1600/8GB, if you use Other branded CF cards it nulls the warranty.
Any problem reported will be addressed in the next build released semi-annually. OR in the hardware version camera RED-ONE B.
If there any technical issue, please email to "info@service.com" "our customer service will get back to to at the earliest"

We are so much used this type business practices, sorry REDvolution is not fitting into our model.
 
Ok Visakk that's just rediculous.

Who charges for firmware and driver updates?

Mind you we pay $1000 a year for maintanance subscriptions to some of our software for major upgrades and point releases but I've never payed for patches in my life.
 
im.thatoneguy said:
Ok Visakk that's just rediculous.

Who charges for firmware and driver updates?

Mind you we pay $1000 a year for maintanance subscriptions to some of our software for major upgrades and point releases but I've never payed for patches in my life.
Click to expand...

sarcasm-sense isn't tingling...
 
Not the common way, but works marketwise, after all...

Not the common way, but works marketwise, after all...

Hi All,

that reminds me strongly of something that happened to me back at university days, lots of years ago....

A professor of public economics had developed a market simulation. Or professor was using it to show us how market is functioning. We were spread into some small groups of 4 poeple each and had to work as deodorant product resellers (well, theoretically of course).

Against all his "rules of market" we decided to sell cheaper, I mean really cheap. Our sales prices was minimal over production value (NO arguments on RED side actually, at all).

The amazing point: Against his (and his collegues, who programmed the simulation) predictions and against all his recommendations to us, we had after like 3 or 4 simulation cycles no less than 95% market share, absolutely dominating the market, dictating pricing levels etc. Production cost fell, due to big amount sales. Beside all low pricing, the ebit of the whole thing was multiple times the rest of all of them.

Even as this is not directly comparable, the strategy feels similar at this point. All other companies really hoped for RED NOT achieving their goals. I heard that from several of their representants directly (no names here). They are amazed it can be done, not understanding they own pricey overheads in development, marketing and effectivity, not to speak about how big steps in development should be. The old strategy is to bring a new model rather than improving the old one with "firmware updates". How many new models where old ones with new names and firmware. Hard to tell...

For an existing company selling an ultimate step onwards means cutting off their strategy, probably ending up in overheads (peoplewise). For a new company there is no risk doing that. Except that once the market is filled, the requirement for new sales may go down. How big must the next step be? We don't know, we will see. What I see from RED's announcements is the strategy continues perfectly. Not actually thinking about the RED TWO officially, but attempting other product categories, potentially repeating RED ONE success (beamers, displays, ...). Thats the strategy I observe (IMHO).

Correct me if I am wrong.

Beside all this I need to add that we got bad degrees for that course, even as we won. Reason: We confused and sabotated the group simulation, being the enfant terribles of the class. But we all could live with that, knowing we were the winners...

Good luck, Jim & Team,

Axel
 
Axel Mertes said:
Hi All,

that reminds me strongly of something that happened to me back at university days, lots of years ago....

A professor of public economics had developed a market simulation. Or professor was using it to show us how market is functioning. We were spread into some small groups of 4 poeple each and had to work as deodorant product resellers (well, theoretically of course).

Against all his "rules of market" we decided to sell cheaper, I mean really cheap. Our sales prices was minimal over production value (NO arguments on RED side actually, at all).

The amazing point: Against his (and his collegues, who programmed the simulation) predictions and against all his recommendations to us, we had after like 3 or 4 simulation cycles no less than 95% market share, absolutely dominating the market, dictating pricing levels etc. Production cost fell, due to big amount sales. Beside all low pricing, the ebit of the whole thing was multiple times the rest of all of them.

Even as this is not directly comparable, the strategy feels similar at this point. All other companies really hoped for RED NOT achieving their goals. I heard that from several of their representants directly (no names here). They are amazed it can be done, not understanding they own pricey overheads in development, marketing and effectivity, not to speak about how big steps in development should be. The old strategy is to bring a new model rather than improving the old one with "firmware updates". How many new models where old ones with new names and firmware. Hard to tell...

For an existing company selling an ultimate step onwards means cutting off their strategy, probably ending up in overheads (peoplewise). For a new company there is no risk doing that. Except that once the market is filled, the requirement for new sales may go down. How big must the next step be? We don't know, we will see. What I see from RED's announcements is the strategy continues perfectly. Not actually thinking about the RED TWO officially, but attempting other product categories, potentially repeating RED ONE success (beamers, displays, ...). Thats the strategy I observe (IMHO).

Correct me if I am wrong.

Beside all this I need to add that we got bad degrees for that course, even as we won. Reason: We confused and sabotated the group simulation, being the enfant terribles of the class. But we all could live with that, knowing we were the winners...

Good luck, Jim & Team,

Axel
Click to expand...

You pretty much emulated the Wal-Mart way of conquering markets.
 
im.thatoneguy said:
Ok Visakk that's just rediculous.

Who charges for firmware and driver updates?
Click to expand...
Not unrelated,

Earlier this year a Sony USA rep tried to charge Circa US$5k to enable 4:4:4 output on the HDC 1500.
This is a software upload via a $10 memory stick.

After more than one customer complained, some quoting REDs philosophy, Sony backed down.

That is not to say that Sony had factored revenue from at a guess 50 HDC 1500s into the development budgets and so were fairly passing on development costs.

(I dont believe this myself! but I'm trying to be even handed)

In any event the notion of charging spending $$$ on a software upgrade to a camera is history.


Mike Brennan



Mike Brennan
 
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