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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

DaVinci Resolve 10

I mean, is it really wrong for BM to only support their own panel and cards? They are already giving you the software for free, even the paid version is dirty cheap compared. Can't they try to make some money too? I really don't get all the pestering about supporting AJA and supporting other panels. I mean, do people ask Ford to offer a Chevy V8 in the Mustang? If I were BM I would never support AJA or any cards that are not BM. I would also never offer the same support for third party panels. It just doesn't make any business sense. I think it's enough that they have gotten something that use to cost in the hundred thousands and made it 995 and even give it away for free. But I know some people will just never be happy. Oh well. I know this wont be a popular post. But it is the truth. Last time I checked BM was still a business.
 
Yes, they are a business. But, better supporting customers is a good business practice that has been proven to increase any business bottomline.
 
Sure. But if they are giving it away for free or basically free, where does the profit come from?
 
Mike S. M. said:
I mean, is it really wrong for BM to only support their own panel and cards? They are already giving you the software for free, even the paid version is dirty cheap compared. Can't they try to make some money too? I really don't get all the pestering about supporting AJA and supporting other panels. I mean, do people ask Ford to offer a Chevy V8 in the Mustang? If I were BM I would never support AJA or any cards that are not BM. I would also never offer the same support for third party panels. It just doesn't make any business sense. I think it's enough that they have gotten something that use to cost in the hundred thousands and made it 995 and even give it away for free. But I know some people will just never be happy. Oh well. I know this wont be a popular post. But it is the truth. Last time I checked BM was still a business.
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They don't HAVE to support any third party hardware, like AJA cards or panels, UNLESS they want people to actually use their software and BUY necessary hardware. Hardware is where BM makes ALL their profits. If you feel, like occasionally playing with free Resolve, then fine. But some people use Resolve professionally and in that case you MUST use the panel. Majority of target users of Resolve will never be able to afford a single use $30K hardware, when multiple use panel for a $1200 suffice. Does this answer your question?
As far as AJA goes, you should direct your ire directly toward Grant Petty, who himself promoted open Resolve, when he specifically promised compatibility of AJA card with Resolve.
 
Mike S. M. said:
Sure. But if they are giving it away for free or basically free, where does the profit come from?
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Customer loyalty. As I said before, this is a well proven good/basic business practice.
 
I bought the Element panels because I like products that have multiple use. I use both Scratch and Resolve in our facility and the element is a nice balance between the two. Obviously, Scratch has much better implementation on the Element with full customization but I'm sure it won't be long before BMD gives in to the user requests. They are extremely responsive to their customer base and although I would personally like to see the AJA Kona cards be supported in Resolve I understand why it isn't yet and purchased their SDI output card.
Personally, I didn't set the price of BMD products, I just enjoy using quality tools. Some are more expensive than others. It takes money to make money, but in the case of technology these days you need to be smart and selective with what works best for you creatively and allows you to be productive in order to profit. Now that the tools are more economically friendly than ever before clients pay for your time and expertise way more than the gear you own. And although there is overhead to pay for in every facility large or small the talent and personal relationships is what brings clients back to you. I've never had a client question my choice in panels or RAIDs, CPU's or software nor have any of my clients asked for a discount because they can put Resolve lite on their MacBook Pro.
 
I'm sorry Jake, but your post makes no sense whatsoever!

jake blackstone said:
They don't HAVE to support any third party hardware, like AJA cards or panels, UNLESS they want people to actually use their software
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And what you are going to use then? Nucoda? Baselight? Lustre? Mistika? Anybody who complains about Resolve panel's price can't afford any of the above, so use what software? Adobe Speed Grade or the defunct Color? Neither come close to Resolve. Good luck!

jake blackstone said:
and BUY necessary hardware. Hardware is where BM makes ALL their profits.
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Exactly! And here is where your post totally makes no sense. If hardware is where BM makes ALL their profits, why are you advocating for BM to support other hardware than theirs? They give you the software for basically free (yes, $995 is basically free) in exchange for you to use their hardware right? This is the business model as you pointed out yourself. So why do you want them to let you use other company's hardware? I mean, Resolve plus their panel is still cheaper than any other high end system. So what's your point?

jake blackstone said:
If you feel, like occasionally playing with free Resolve, then fine.
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It doesn't matter if it's Resolve free or not.


jake blackstone said:
But some people use Resolve professionally and in that case you MUST use the panel.
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Exactly. So use the Resolve panel.

jake blackstone said:
Majority of target users of Resolve will never be able to afford a single use $30K hardware, when multiple use panel for a $1200 suffice.
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Majority of target users of Resolve? If they can't afford it they are obviously not the target. Then they can't afford Resolve. What did these same people do when DaVinci was over $100K? Didn't use it right? Now BM has dropped the price to $31K and people are still complaining. So obviously they are not the target, so I don't know what you are on about. Why don't you complain about the price of Baselight to them?

For the people who can't afford their panel BM already made Resolve Light and made it perfectly possible to correct with the mouse in version 9 of both Resolve and Resolve Lite. But I know, it's not enough, right?

Besides, 3rd party panels work with Resolve in some way, right? They already gave you that. But again it's not enough.

Even if BM released a panel for under $5K, after a couple of months people would just start saying it was still over priced because Avid MC costs much less. People are just never happy.

jake blackstone said:
As far as AJA goes, you should direct your ire directly toward Grant Petty, who himself promoted open Resolve, when he specifically promised compatibility of AJA card with Resolve.
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I never saw any statements from BM promising that, but I'm not doubting you. Maybe they said that right after they bought Resolve and before they had a plan for it? Maybe they saw the light and saw that they couldn't offer it for cheap and make it open while still making a profit and changed their minds? Could it be it?

By the way, who said anything about ire? I'm just not delusional to think a company is out to help people out instead of making money. But I'm not emotional at all about it. I just find it funny all the requests for BM to support the competition's hardware. I'm like, can people really be that blind? Or they are just in denial? Why don't you ask RED to support Sony accessories then? Because it would make no sense right? Why BM is the exception?


Look, if they want to do it, it's up to them and nobody's business. If they do it, fine. Fantastic! But it's not like they have to and honestly I don't see a reason why they would want to either. But I'm not BM.
 
Luis Otero said:
Customer loyalty. As I said before, this is a well proven good/basic business practice.
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Yes, customer loyalty, to other company's hardware. :) LOL, what a mind set.
You buy their software for dirty cheap, and then pay the big bucks to the competition's hardware. BM definitely has a lot to be happy about concerning your loyalty.
 
Mike S. M. said:
Yes, customer loyalty, to other company's hardware. :) LOL, what a mind set.
You buy their software for dirty cheap, and then pay the big bucks to the competition's hardware. BM definitely has a lot to be happy about concerning your loyalty.
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No, I buy all their cards and other tools, except the $30K panel that I cannot afford.


Re: "LOL, what a mind set": please, being condescending and/or sarcastic with me or any other fellow reduser does not help to have a respectful, meaningful exchange of ideas.
 
See the same response given to the other Mike.

I am not going to waste my time in glorifying your disrespectful assertion of my "motives", financial situation or character. However, your post shows the true color of yours.
 
Luis Otero said:
No, I buy all their cards and other tools, except the $30K panel that I cannot afford.


Re: "LOL, what a mind set": please, being condescending and/or sarcastic with me or any other fellow reduser does not help to have a respectful, meaningful exchange of ideas.
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It wasn't meant to be condescending. It was meant to pin point the reality of your post. ;)
 
M Most said:
Luis, you should really try to be a bit more honest in this post. What you're really asking for is for Blackmagic to support you and whatever you want to do whether you can afford it or not, and whether it will represent any return to them or not (and it won't). You want them to make it so you can compete with the "big boys" (at least in terms of the perception, or your view of the perception, of people walking in your door) but not pay them anything for the privilege. In other words, you want more free (or ultra cheap) stuff. And having free software is just not enough.

Any job can be done with any of these panels, or even without any of them. I've been a colorist on and off for a long time, and I graded an entire season of a very major network show last season using Resolve and a Tangent Wave. Was I happy about that? No, especially because I was working in a major facility at the time, but there just weren't any more "big" panels available, it was a Mac based system that had just been added, and there was nothing in the cap ex to get the new panels. Was I as efficient as I would have been with the full panel set? No, but I still got the show done in the required time and did everything I needed to. After I had used the Wave for an episode or two, I stopped worrying about it, got used to what was in front of me, and used the Wave and a mouse to do what I needed to do. That's what being a professional requires. What it doesn't require is telling the manufacturer that they have to give even more things away, or support hardware they can't make any money on as well as they support their own. Blackmagic has done enough - far more than their share and far more than any other company - to support fledgling colorists and small business entrepreneurs already. I applaud them for what they've provided, and if their choice is to encourage users to move up to their hardware by reserving some features specifically for it, I really don't have any problem with that. And neither should anyone else.
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Great post! Agree 100%.
 
Also true colors coming through...

The sad part is that none of you two know me, I do not know you, and judging and insulting people seems to come so natural from you.

However, the sadest part is that the big looser is the reduser cybercomunity that gains nothing, but losses a lot by this type of behavior that blocks civilized exchange of ideas.
 
Luis Otero said:
See the same response given to the other Mike.

I am not going to waste my time in glorifying your disrespectful assertion of my "motives", financial situation or character. However, your post shows the true color of yours.
Click to expand...


I'm not going to trade insults with you or anyone else here. I just stated an alternative view, which is that Blackmagic is already giving everyone the tools to do whatever they need to do with the software they give you for free. They make it possible to use panels that cost next to nothing as well as panels that cost a substantial amount of money, and each delivers a different level of performance and function. I pointed out that even at the "highest" level, one can accomplish whatever they have to with whatever panel they happen to have access to, without any more effort on Blackmagic's part. Anything beyond that is the user's choice. If you take that as "disrespectful," that's your problem, not mine.
 
For me the problem with the bmd panels is you never know what that company s going to do price wise. They undercut themselves and others like crazy so it's scary to get into something at that price from them. I think it might be the only product they've ever had that hasn't seen a huge price cut within a year or two (Except the perpetually languishing ultrascope).
I know... If you need it, get it, and make your money and don't worry about price drops. But they put themselves in 2 or 3 different market segments with resolve at the same time, so it's a tough call. You know, as dumb as it sounds, if that panel was available from anyone else, it would seem very reasonably priced. From bmd, you have to think, wow, next trade show it might be 50% less!

Edit. Anyway they have stated there is improved and more complete mapping on third panel mapping in v10, for element at least...
 
Paul Provost said:
For me the problem with the bmd panels is you never know what that company s going to do price wise. They undercut themselves and others like crazy so it's scary to get into something at that price from them. I think it might be the only product they've ever had that hasn't seen a huge price cut within a year or two (Except the perpetually languishing ultrascope).
I know... If you need it, get it, and make your money and don't worry about price drops. But they put themselves in 2 or 3 different market segments with resolve at the same time, so it's a tough call. You know, as dumb as it sounds, if that panel was available from anyone else, it would seem very reasonably priced. From bmd, you have to think, wow, next trade show it might be 50% less!
.
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I don't disagree. However, the market segments, as you refer to them, are very, very different in terms of both what they want and what they can afford or need. On the one hand, you have individuals working alone, sometimes doing paid work but often not. You then have individuals and "startup" type companies (usually an artist or two opening their own shop) who do paying work, but not on the level of studio clients, and usually not demanding of theater environments, sophisticated color management, multiple deliverables, and real time uncompressed 4K performance. Finally, you have the established companies, who need all of those things and have a client base that not only expects them, but is willing to pay at least somewhat for them. It's not just the panels that define what those installations have in terms of Resolve hardware. It's usually a multiple chassis Linux installation, with a third chassis housing anywhere between 4 and 8 GPUs, a large, fast SAN, and lots of fast local storage as well. These systems directly compete with installations of Baselight, Lustre, and the like. So the price of the panels is far less significant in that situation than it is in any of the others, and that's one reason the panels have stayed where they are price-wise.

I can see them doing a cut down version of the panel set, or perhaps selling the 3 panels a la carte. Filmlight is doing a smaller version of the Blackboard (called Slate) that represents another approach. In their case, they removed all of the transport controls and some still management buttons, all of which are rather easily controlled by the computer keyboard. That allowed them make a panel with similar quality of build and controls, but with fewer of them and a lower price point. Perhaps that's something Blackmagic is considering. Perhaps not.....

BTW, Ultrascope has evolved into a multiple product family, and, as is usual for Blackmagic, one that uses existing Blackmagic technology to develop a new product. In this case, they have taken their SmartVue product (a dual monitor, rackmounted 4RU display set), combined it (internally) with the pocket Ultrascope, and created the SmartScope Duo, which displays the scopes on the two monitors (in addition to a video feed, if you want to see that). The traces are much finer and more accurate than the Ultrascope displayed on a computer monitor, and the unit doesn't require a computer host (although you control it through a network attached host via a browser interface). And they are selling it for $995, which is ultimately considerably less than the original version, which included a PCIe card and the software, but required you to supply a computer and monitor to host it. Really nice for both portable carts and studio consoles.
 
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