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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Cost of Scarlet

Do you guys really think there is a market for a 2/3" chip past $15,000? If you are going to spend that on a 2/3" chip you might as well save another 4000 and get the S35 of the FF35 (which will be more). Seems like they are better suited for the high end productions.

And Mr. Mullen, I would love to read your article when you are finished with it.
 
Steve Goodloe said:
Do you guys really think there is a market for a 2/3" chip past $15,000?
Click to expand...

That's kinda of a funny question since before Scarlet, you couldn't buy a 2/3" camera for below $15,000...

The Sony F23, after all, is a 2/3" camera that sells for well-over $100,000.
 
As Im sure its been discussed Im curious if anyone can tell me what is the absolute needs for an initial Scarlet non fixed lens package?

I want to be sure the information is not what someone prefers but only what is needed to initially make the camera work and record some footage.

For example Camera body, lens mount, battery, display, Cf Card Reader and a 16 gb card, ect., ect. Im just trying to get a true idea of what I will need in a camera package to shoot an indie feature or music videos.
 
Lowest cost basic setup I'm looking at:

Cinema brain 2750
Side handle for both control and battery power 950
Side CF module 500
2.8" LCD with aftermarket eye loupe. 900 + 400 ( poor man's EVF, loupe not strictly necessary)
Lens mount of choice if other than the included mini-Red mount (PL mount for me) 500
CF cards 4 x 300
Extra batteries and charger 4-600?
Baseplate & mounting accessories around 1k or so ( not strictly necessary, but a practical essential)
Used matte box and basic filter set 1k-1.5k ( again not strictly necessary, but a practical need)
Plus lenses, or you can rent. My primary lens is a used Cooke 9-50 zoom,around 1500 with PL conversion and service.
So about 10.5k give or take.

Now you can get by with 1 CF card and 1 battery but I would want at least two of each plus the battery charger for any shoot. The minimum gear needed to actually shoot a project vs just turn the camera on and shoot something casually will vary with what you intend to do. For instance if you are shooting outdoors in bright sun, you will want the matte box and a selection of ND filters or a screw on sunshade and filters depending on your lenses. Pick your own lenses. I really think people way underestimate the practical gear needed for actual field production on a project. Of course you can always rent the extras if that is available to you locally.

As the lowest cost practical kit, the fixed version is the superior choice and won't give up anything in image quality unless you buy very expensive lenses for the cinema. Cheap 35mm still lenses on the 2/3" cinema won't do nearly as well. A full set of the Red mini-primes alone will cost as much as the basic fixed kit. That used Cooke I have was around 12k new, the current model is 42k, it is a very top of the line 16mm cine lens.
 
Thanks for the info but again the most basic would be a little less than what you mentioned. Stuff like 2 CF cards would do initially and most indie guys will go with a Nikon mount or something to use great still lenses.
I dont really care about lenses, tripods, lights or audio at the moment because I have a lot of that stuff. I just want to know the absolute bare bones Scarlet, set up to be able to film something.
Then as needed later I will add more to my kit.
 
Michael Chase Gordon said:
Thanks for the info but again the most basic would be a little less than what you mentioned. Stuff like 2 CF cards would do initially and most indie guys will go with a Nikon mount or something to use great still lenses.
I dont really care about lenses, tripods, lights or audio at the moment because I have a lot of that stuff. I just want to know the absolute bare bones Scarlet, set up to be able to film something.
Then as needed later I will add more to my kit.
Click to expand...

If you are looking at the S35 Scarlet then the Nikons make sense. Not a very good choice for 2/3" as they will not have adequate MTF/resolution for the smaller format, especially the cheaper primes or kit zooms. The equivalent field of view to a 18mm wide angle lens on a Nikon DX format still camera would be 8mm on 2/3". So getting wide will not be easy.

You can extract the bare essentials for you from the above list:
Brain
lens mount
LCD
CF module plus cards at 300 per
Side handle for control and battery power
Batteries and charger, price unknown at this point. Figure about 1 to 1-1/2 hours of shooting time per handle battery. How many will you need? I'm estimating batteries at about 200 per and same for the charger.
That is as about as cheap as it is likely to get.
 
Michael Chase Gordon said:
Thanks for the info but again the most basic would be a little less than what you mentioned. Stuff like 2 CF cards would do initially and most indie guys will go with a Nikon mount or something to use great still lenses.
I dont really care about lenses, tripods, lights or audio at the moment because I have a lot of that stuff. I just want to know the absolute bare bones Scarlet, set up to be able to film something.
Then as needed later I will add more to my kit.
Click to expand...

I was thinking the same thing re: lenses, but now I am thinking a 16mm PL mount zoom in the $1k - $1.5k range is going to cost no MORE than nikon still lenses, it may resolve better, and it will definately be best for moving fast / run and gun / indie. Considering the mount is the same cost... So for $1.5k you could have a 10x zoom on the interchangable.

just my current thoughts.

I think you and I are in the same boat. definately getting scarlet, not wanting to cut corners, but not being able to afford any fluff.

Lens, Mount, Camera Body, Handle for contrl and power, 2 CF cards, Side Card Slot.

and a monitor like this for $900: http://www.lcdracks.com/monitors/v-lcd70p-hdmi.html

TOTAL $7750 ?


Jeff
 
Anthony Rinaldi said:
....

Mic: $200
RED Reader: $200
Click to expand...

as far as I know, and I think this is confirmed, you can offloaed right from the camera, or use a cheap CF reader. It wont be fast, but faster than you fill up the other card.

Where I am going with this is to put $375 into a good mic :-P. I like my NTG2, then have a nice shock mount and cables... audio is SO important. at least as important as visual

not that you werent saying this already, just thinking in the "save every dime" vein

Jeff
 
OH! the SSD module for $1500 is looking really intelligent! I wonder what the capacity will be?
 
yea, comparing it to the cost of a CF module, looks like its possible this ssd module is just a slot you'd stick a sata solid state drive into. which would explain the solid state reader for $200. at least cost of ssd is going down, 128GB for under $400. which together will still run cheaper than Red-Ram. and being able to switch out multiple ssd for long shoots, i like the idea. just wondering what specs the ssd would require if it indeed is a slot type deal.
 
I believe they said the SSD's will be mounted in a proprietary hot swap cartridge for long term reliability of the contacts with repeated insertion/removal cycles.
 
George Tsai said:
yea, comparing it to the cost of a CF module, looks like its possible this ssd module is just a slot you'd stick a sata solid state drive into. which would explain the solid state reader for $200. at least cost of ssd is going down, 128GB for under $400. which together will still run cheaper than Red-Ram. and being able to switch out multiple ssd for long shoots, i like the idea.
Click to expand...

I like the idea too. I just hope/wish $1500 was the price for module + one ssd, rather than just for the drive slot.

I also bet they're going to cost a hell of a lot more than $400. Most of those drives can't write fast enough for RC100+. The Intel X25-M G2 160GB that [theoretically] can is $600. However that market is changing very fast, so by the time these cameras are out who knows?

Plus, just like the UDMA CF cards, I bet they'll discover that even the Intels aren't fast enough and have to OEM their own that cost twice as much.
 
I don't have anything to add to the pricing configurations thus far posted here. All very helpful to most any of us and for David Mullen, ASC who asked the original query of whether a working 2/3 Scarlet with interchangeable lenses could be had for less than $10K. You guys are really creative in your approaches to the question and then in marketing strategies and personal desires. I really liked the McDonalds marketing of their Meal Deals. We did not, however, make any mention of McDs other Meal Deal option of going large or not. This may have absolutely nothing to do with our discussion, but it does reveal McDs opportunity to give consumers more options for McDs productline.

That is where I hope I can make my point. We all remeber Jim's orginal sales and marketing phrase of December 3, 2008 -- "An Extreme Case of Multiple Personalities . . . 1,048,576 Posibilities (as of today)."

If Red offers a working package for Scarlet Interchangeable we reduce those different configuration possibilities. I agree that component costs structures change with large sales numbers, and Red may decide to offer such packaging. I, one with limited financial resources, would appreciate a lower pricing structure. However, I want a Red camera with all its capabilities helping me look good and Red as a company that is continuing the R&D so Red will be around and continue to grow in offers for our/my capabilties to produce outstanding product, which to date I have not done to the levels possible with Red.

I know you all feel the same way and are trusting Jim/Red to deliver the goods at what appears to be far, far below the pricing structures of those already in the industry. So I like you await Red's decisions and do the work arounds on our projects until that time I can sit down with my accountant and ask, can I have this?

I realize this is elementary in thought so if it offends anyone, forgive me.

Wayne
3B Digital Studios
 
The truth is, once the Scarlet gets released (and other variants), I bet it gets a LOT quieter on here :) It will be a lot busier on Vimeo (Look what I shot with the Scarlet!)

And....I'll be guilty of this I am sure! :)
 
Rick Burnett said:
The truth is, once the Scarlet gets released (and other variants), I bet it gets a LOT quieter on here :) It will be a lot busier on Vimeo (Look what I shot with the Scarlet!)

And....I'll be guilty of this I am sure! :)
Click to expand...

Maybe someone will be good enough to make a 'Red Only' video sharing site....
And I'll wager the boards might be even busier, because everyone will be sharing tips and tricks post-purchase (and hassling Jim for the release date of the next range of cameras!)
 
And maybe there will be new categories here in the forum. "Shot on Scarlet" for example.
 
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