Cost of Scarlet

[Joseph Hutson]

Of course, you could always go with a 2.8" RED touchscreen and get an additional larger monitor and take use of the HDMI output. Modularity FTW!

 

[Roberto Lequeux]

I'd say Scarlet Fixed FTW!

The problem is that a realistic cinema package starts a few grand over $10k, not including any support, or processing of any sort. Bare white bones.

If you start with what you can get then start with a Fixed. Later you can slowly build a second 2/3" or S35 along side it.

 

[Gary Paul Walker]

Of course, you could always go with a 2.8" RED touchscreen and get an additional larger monitor and take use of the HDMI output. Modularity FTW!

Is the touchscreen something that you could do without?

 

[Roberto Lequeux]

Apparently all you need is a Red Mote and a handle for full operating glory. I suppose the 2.8" is being picked because it is the most affordable you can somewhat compose with and because it might allow for touch focusing... no matter how great that is I want a big screen... 5" is too small in fact.

 

[Gary Paul Walker]

Apparently all you need is a Red Mote and a handle for full operating glory. I suppose the 2.8" is being picked because it is the most affordable you can somewhat compose with and because it might allow for touch focusing... no matter how great that is I want a big screen... 5" is too small in fact.

The thing is, I already have a very nice hd monitor for the hdmi out... and if all the functionality (minus touch focusing) can be handled on the RedMote, this would reduce the cost even more - thats not to say that I'm probably not going to pick one up at a later date...

 

[Joseph Hutson]

The thing is, I already have a very nice hd monitor for the hdmi out... and if all the functionality (minus touch focusing) can be handled on the RedMote, this would reduce the cost even more - thats not to say that I'm probably not going to pick one up at a later date...

I'm not 100% sure, but I would think the UI (user interface) will be taking advantage of the RED EVF/LCD output. Of course, a video feed will be available to be sent through the HDMI output but I'm not sure how the UI will display through that route...

 

[Gary Paul Walker]

I'm not 100% sure, but I would think the UI (user interface) will be taking advantage of the RED EVF/LCD output. Of course, a video feed will be available to be sent through the HDMI output but I'm not sure how the UI will display through that route...

It'd certainly be nice to have the UI displayed via the HDMI, but upon reflection (and reading other posts) there seems to be a stress on the HDMI being a monitoring option, rather than a UI. I guess it'll be answered definitivly in the future, but its something that I'd like to see for sure!

 

[David Rasberry]

I'm not 100% sure, but I would think the UI (user interface) will be taking advantage of the RED EVF/LCD output. Of course, a video feed will be available to be sent through the HDMI output but I'm not sure how the UI will display through that route...

From what has been said about the monitor ports, including HDMI, they all have the same display capability and you can program what you want to see from the UI. If one is not using electronically controlled lenses, I don't think the touch screen function is much use. Roberto on 2/3" that 10-22 would be roughly equivalent to a 35mm lens on an FF35 camera at the short end. A Cooke 9-50 would be roughly equal to a 28-180mm FF35 zoom.

 

[Gary Paul Walker]

From what has been said about the monitor ports, including HDMI, they all have the same display capability and you can program what you want to see from the UI. If one is not using electronically controlled lenses, I don't think the touch screen function is much use.

Well in that case that would make my life a lot easier! If i could get the UI do display on my hd monitor I would be a happy filmer!

 

[Tiana Hall]

I'd say Scarlet Fixed FTW!

The problem is that a realistic cinema package starts a few grand over $10k, not including any support, or processing of any sort. Bare white bones.

If you start with what you can get then start with a Fixed. Later you can slowly build a second 2/3" or S35 along side it.

This I think is the best way for me to go. Start with fixed and add a little as I go along.

Also I may on bigger projects rent and hire an owner/Operator.

My brother teaches High School Film video and editing classes so my fixed will get a workout with his students.

 

[Jimmy Odom]

I would be more thankful for Red's generosity on one camera than instead demand that they be just as generous with all their other cameras.

Who said anything about "DEMANDING" that same price point.

"DISCLAIMER"please remember what I'm saying is only meant to be an ANALOGY, I'm not comparing RED to this soon to be mentioned business.

This is the way I was looking at it, referencing a business, not just a movement, but a BUSINESS.

If Mc Donalds charges lets say $1.50 for a medium fry, and $2.00 for a Bigmac, and $1.50 for a Coke. The total for purchasing them separately would come out to $5. So McDonalds sees that the more the sell of a given item the more they can buy in bulk, and therefore the less they are charged for each component which makes up that particular order.

So since they have seen that they pay less for the more they sell/buy they figured "Hey lets make a package deal, that way we can GUARANTEE that with every "X" amount of Big Macs' sold the less we'll pay over all on our Cokes' and Fries. So in the long run we'll save more $$, therefore make more $$. So subsequently McD's decides to offer the same components the customer ordered which cost him $5, as a meal for only $4.25. Saving both the customer $ and ensuring the company to $$$ more money in the process.

They do this because not only will they make more $ in the long run, but they also realize they're customers would prefer this option as well.Not to mention they figured that the customer who orders the BigMac may also want to wash the burger down with a drink, and heck for only a little bit more can add to his meal with the fries. So now EVERYONE is happy.

So now imagine this scenario. A customer who is in line and orders the BigMac deal, but only after the clerk tells him about the savings he'll get if he orders the bundle. Now there is a guy behind him who overhears the option the clerk just gave him, and how by bundling his order he saves $.75. So the guy now done with his BigMac order steps aside, and the second guy steps up. After the clerk asks him what would he like he says that he'd like a Fish Fillet sandwich, fries and a drink, and if he could can he make it a meal. The clerk replies that she would happily give him his order but won't/don't offer a meal with his order, because it isn't a BigMac meal.

So what is the Fish Fillet gentleman to think, or even say? I'm sure his first question would be, why not, you offered the discount on the fry and coke to the gentleman before me. What then is the clerk to say,

1. McDonalds decided to offer the discount only on the BigMac meal.
2. The discount can only be applicable to this meal at this time.
3. etc. etc. etc.

The dilemma that McDonald's then stands to be in i explaining to the FishFillet guy why it is able to offer the discount on the fries and drink for those who purchase them with bigMac's and not with other sandwiches.

Of course they are the business, so they can charge WHATEVER they want, and the customer then has the choice to buy or not to buy. They can also take the position to never divulge why they chose to make the discount available in the first place. Or they could decide to allow everyone who dines with them to at least have the opportunity to save that couple cents, seeing as they have already shown that they are at least able to offer some type of savings on those particular components (fries,coke).

Once again I'm just providing a case study regarding my thought process on the whole Bundles Shooting Kits, for both Scarlet and Epic.

It's just a thought, and not law, I'm just thinking out loud, but I'm curious to what you guys think of my little analogy.

 

[Gary Paul Walker]

Who said anything about "DEMANDING" that same price point.

"DISCLAIMER"please remember what I'm saying is only meant to be an ANALOGY, I'm not comparing RED to this soon to be mentioned business.

This is the way I was looking at it, referencing a business, not just a movement, but a BUSINESS.

If Mc Donalds charges lets say $1.50 for a medium fry, and $2.00 for a Bigmac, and $1.50 for a Coke. The total for purchasing them separately would come out to $5. So McDonalds sees that the more the sell of a given item the more they can buy in bulk, and therefore the less they are charged for each component which makes up that particular order.

So since they have seen that they pay less for the more they sell/buy they figured "Hey lets make a package deal, that way we can GUARANTEE that with every "X" amount of Big Macs' sold the less we'll pay over all on our Cokes' and Fries. So in the long run we'll save more $$, therefore make more $$. So subsequently McD's decides to offer the same components the customer ordered which cost him $5, as a meal for only $4.25. Saving both the customer $ and ensuring the company to $$$ more money in the process.

They do this because not only will they make more $ in the long run, but they also realize they're customers would prefer this option as well.Not to mention they figured that the customer who orders the BigMac may also want to wash the burger down with a drink, and heck for only a little bit more can add to his meal with the fries. So now EVERYONE is happy.

So now imagine this scenario. A customer who is in line and orders the BigMac deal, but only after the clerk tells him about the savings he'll get if he orders the bundle. Now there is a guy behind him who overhears the option the clerk just gave him, and how by bundling his order he saves $.75. So the guy now done with his BigMac order steps aside, and the second guy steps up. After the clerk asks him what would he like he says that he'd like a Fish Fillet sandwich, fries and a drink, and if he could can he make it a meal. The clerk replies that she would happily give him his order but won't/don't offer a meal with his order, because it isn't a BigMac meal.

So what is the Fish Fillet gentleman to think, or even say? I'm sure his first question would be, why not, you offered the discount on the fry and coke to the gentleman before me. What then is the clerk to say,

1. McDonalds decided to offer the discount only on the BigMac meal.
2. The discount can only be applicable to this meal at this time.
3. etc. etc. etc.

The dilemma that McDonald's then stands to be in i explaining to the FishFillet guy why it is able to offer the discount on the fries and drink for those who purchase them with bigMac's and not with other sandwiches.

Of course they are the business, so they can charge WHATEVER they want, and the customer then has the choice to buy or not to buy. They can also take the position to never divulge why they chose to make the discount available in the first place. Or they could decide to allow everyone who dines with them to at least have the opportunity to save that couple cents, seeing as they have already shown that they are at least able to offer some type of savings on those particular components (fries,coke).

Once again I'm just providing a case study regarding my thought process on the whole Bundles Shooting Kits, for both Scarlet and Epic.

It's just a thought, and not law, I'm just thinking out loud, but I'm curious to what you guys think of my little analogy.

I think that that this analogy would apply if the Scarlet fixed and Scarlet interchangeable were the same, at a base level.
While they maybe be technologically the same brain, it can be considered that there is an intrinsic value to having an interchangeable lens system over a fixed system.

While I understand your point, you have to assess the value of offering the potential for more lens option. While it isnt a tangible fixture of the interchangeable system, theres an argument to be made for the expansion of the cameras potential (and the potential of its user).
To echo what David has said, Red are being remarkably generous in offering the Fixed Scarlet at an amazing price, and I believe that prospectively the Scarlet and Epic camera lines are far more valuable than the sum of their parts.

 

[WILLIAM SPENCE]

It is simple ratio of quantity of sales versus R&D. They are going to sell a massive number of the fixed-lens scarletts so they can afford to give it to us at a lower price while covering their R&D, and still make a profit. The interchangeable scarlett will not sell anywhere near as many as the fixed-lens, but a new body and lense mount and lenses etc. all had to be designed to fill a smaller need. With all the extra R&D, if they sell fewer cameras, those cameras have to cost more to cover the design costs and still make a profit. So, the more you can sell, the cheaper they will be. The less that you can sell, the more expensive they MUST be to cover all the design costs. Simple.

 

[Jimmy Odom]

I'm not exsclusively looking for a lower price on the Scarlet Cinema, in fact I believe it is priced quite aggressive for where it will land in the marketplace. So I'm not sure if I was missunderstood.

What I'm inparticular inquiring is regarding a base shooting kit, the essential components that ALL cams will need, no matter if it be a Fixed, Cinema, FF35, Epic, etc. So William if we take what you've just stated and assume your correct, since ALL body's MUST be accompanied by these essential parts, in order to become functional then by default a TON of them will be sold, so they should most likely pay their R&D costs several times over, and even leave a roof for profit.

I guess I must be off base in asking, NOT DEMANDING, NOT PUSHING THE ISSUE, if it could be possible for RED to offer some type of shooting package, that could offer us a couple bucks being saved.

I mean heck I'm gonna buy it REGARDLESS, AND HAVE A BUDGET OF $11k for my Cinema, so either way my ENTIRE SCARLET budget is going into RED. It would just be AWESOME if by them offering a shooting kit, I saved let's hypothetically say $350 since I bought it all together. Then that savings ends up buying me an extra CF card, or gets me that much closer to a DSMC mount, or allows me to buy another lens, etc.

I'm just asking if its possible, if its not, hey I'm happy, if it is, hey I'm happy. So either way I'm good. But to not even ask RED, just because you are SOOO gratefull for what they're doing to the industry is ludicrus. I mean if you don't ask then how can you receive, and if it can't happen then at least you know for a certanty, and what's best of all is that you are in no worse iff scenario than before you asked.

But hey, that's just me. :lipsrsealed:

 

[Peter Franzen]

I'm kinda with Jimmy on this. I would be surprised if there isn't a base package that's available for every brain at a slight discount.

 

[Aric Mannion]

Is the fixed Scarlet a "prosumer" camera? I didn't realize the Scarlet 2/3 prices tag could add up so quickly. I'm not sure all the lenses that can be used on them (or why they would at least cost $950?!). But the scarlet lens looks smaller than my HDV prosumer camera.

 

[Jim Retar]

The problem with a base pack that can be used by 2/3" upto Epic X is that it will not sell many units..... the 2/3" crew might buy some..... but for the most part.... if you are looking at scarlet s35 or better, you can probably afford and demand a better system (5" touchscreen at least, I/O module etc etc). Why buy a great camera and then use the cheapest, hardest to use components?

The only way around that would be to have a low/mid/pro "base" pack.

 

[Rick Burnett]

True, or some people may be using other components as well, like different monitors and such.

Although I agree with one thing, I'd have rather seen for people a base kit that comes with everything that the fixed comes with EXCEPT the brain. That way if people want to buy all the stuff from the fixed, they don't feel punished for it because they want the Cinema brain.

For me personally, I want the fixed so it is a non-issue.

From a different perspective, I'm assuming what is going to happen is when you order the fixed, it will be completely put together and ready to go when you get it. It will come from manufacturing that way. When you order the other brains, I imagine it will either have to be put together by hand (some of it or all of it, never ordered a red before), so the pathway and labor will be different.

The only thing I can relate this to is remote control cars. If you buy a RTR (ready to run) kit, they are VERY CHEAP compared to customizing every part ordered for a car. (I know because I bought an RTR to mount a camera on to do some similar shots they did in Crank 2 : High Voltage. Yes, ridiculous movie, but some of the tricks they used to get interesting shots are awesome).

 

[Adam Jeal]

It's just a thought, and not law, I'm just thinking out loud, but I'm curious to what you guys think of my little analogy.

I'd never want to see McRED's. ok RED 'Happy Meals' would be cool :biggrin: imagine the toys!!! but i'd never want to see RED become a bland corporate entity.

I know that wasn't the point of your post Jimmy, but I just couldn't resist.

Adam

 

[Adam Jeal]

I'm not exsclusively looking for a lower price on the Scarlet Cinema, in fact I believe it is priced quite aggressive for where it will land in the marketplace. So I'm not sure if I was missunderstood.

What I'm inparticular inquiring is regarding a base shooting kit, the essential components that ALL cams will need, no matter if it be a Fixed, Cinema, FF35, Epic, etc. So William if we take what you've just stated and assume your correct, since ALL body's MUST be accompanied by these essential parts, in order to become functional then by default a TON of them will be sold, so they should most likely pay their R&D costs several times over, and even leave a roof for profit.

I guess I must be off base in asking, NOT DEMANDING, NOT PUSHING THE ISSUE, if it could be possible for RED to offer some type of shooting package, that could offer us a couple bucks being saved.

I mean heck I'm gonna buy it REGARDLESS, AND HAVE A BUDGET OF $11k for my Cinema, so either way my ENTIRE SCARLET budget is going into RED. It would just be AWESOME if by them offering a shooting kit, I saved let's hypothetically say $350 since I bought it all together. Then that savings ends up buying me an extra CF card, or gets me that much closer to a DSMC mount, or allows me to buy another lens, etc.

I'm just asking if its possible, if its not, hey I'm happy, if it is, hey I'm happy. So either way I'm good. But to not even ask RED, just because you are SOOO gratefull for what they're doing to the industry is ludicrus. I mean if you don't ask then how can you receive, and if it can't happen then at least you know for a certanty, and what's best of all is that you are in no worse iff scenario than before you asked.

But hey, that's just me. :lipsrsealed:

..being serious now. I agree with you Jimmy. We are all feeling the squeeze at the moment and anything that can possibly help out with that is most welcome.