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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Contax Zeiss Survival Guide

I've got quite a startling discovery I made with an older Canon telephoto zoom and it's likeness to MMJ Contax. Doing a few more tests then I'll publish my findings, but so far it's quite promising.

It's done. Check it out here: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthr...agic-Drainpipe
 
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Ben Scott said:
BTW, not sure if there have already been any pics that I missed but I just uploaded these as an example of Ninja Star bokeh for an interested potential buyer and I thought it might be handy for people to see what precisely the 'ninja star' refers to. Contax 50mm f1.4 AE. Shot late at night on a Canon C300.

Ninja Star Bokeh

ContaxZeiss50mmbokeh1NinjaStar_zps8cac86b8.jpg


Same street, same lens and same minute probably. Just a click of the iris dial and Regular Bokeh

ContaxZeiss50mmbokeh2_zpsf81d67ee.jpg
Click to expand...

You can see the "Ninja Star" of an 85mm 1.4 at TC 00:42 of this lens breathing test.

https://vimeo.com/58489933
 
Ben Scott said:
BTW, not sure if there have already been any pics that I missed but I just uploaded these as an example of Ninja Star bokeh for an interested potential buyer and I thought it might be handy for people to see what precisely the 'ninja star' refers to. Contax 50mm f1.4 AE. Shot late at night on a Canon C300.

Ninja Star Bokeh

ContaxZeiss50mmbokeh1NinjaStar_zps8cac86b8.jpg


Same street, same lens and same minute probably. Just a click of the iris dial and Regular Bokeh

ContaxZeiss50mmbokeh2_zpsf81d67ee.jpg
Click to expand...

Gorgeous samples Ben. The MM's basically look like your second pic, when you closed down a bit.
 
Ben Scott said:
Thganks Nick. I have to say the ninja star is kinda funky and not unattractive...
Click to expand...

I agree. Sometimes, it's not the right feel, but a lot of the time it adds a bit of character and funk that I too...really like.

Considering most lenses theses days don't have any personality, what the ninja star at least does is REEK with Character. Drips and oozes a certain personality that I have to admit...I find a total breath of fresh air.
 
Watched season2 episode one of Luther last night and there were tons of shots with ninja star bokeh in them... Would be interested to hear about their lens choices on that show. It looks great. Desaturated but with real depth.
 
Cooke lenses (S4's) have ninja starring, as well as a whole mix of older lenses (Including older Canon's as well). Ninja star bokeh isn't just limited to the AE Contax set.
 
Nick Morrison said:
I agree. Sometimes, it's not the right feel, but a lot of the time it adds a bit of character and funk that I too...really like.

Considering most lenses theses days don't have any personality, what the ninja star at least does is REEK with Character. Drips and oozes a certain personality that I have to admit...I find a total breath of fresh air.
Click to expand...

Word :)
 
Shervin Mandgaryan said:
Cooke lenses (S4's) have ninja starring, as well as a whole mix of older lenses (Including older Canon's as well). Ninja star bokeh isn't just limited to the AE Contax set.
Click to expand...

Ah okay.. Actually on IMDB it says S4s were used so good call there. Still worth pointing out that flagship productions like thathave no issue with it and don't see it as a problem per se.
 
Shervin Mandgaryan said:
Cooke lenses (S4's) have ninja starring, as well as a whole mix of older lenses (Including older Canon's as well). Ninja star bokeh isn't just limited to the AE Contax set.
Click to expand...

WOW, Shervin. Didn't know that. Love this forum!! I know that Cooke's have a very clear OCTAGON pattern that looks A LOT like the Ninja-Star. I see it in the back of Merlots shots on True Blood, saw it in Zero Dark Thirty, and it comes up in The Hour and Downton Abby. All I believe shot on Cooke lenses.

But those are modern shows, presumably shooting on new glass, so maybe they have the Octagon bokeh now, and no longer the Ninja? Either way, cool to know the Ninja-Star was "a thing". That's a new wrinkle to the story I like.

I remember reading somewhere that Zeiss believed the Ninja Star help control distortion. Not sure if that's true, as they ended up removing it (while not changing the lens designs for the most part: I guess they took it out for aesthetic reasons, to keep the look more consistent?).

One thing I've noticed is the ninja star certainly can add funk to the bokeh, esp on a really busy background where you can't even see the Ninja Star: it can create a wonderful busy "pattern" that the MM's can't always replicate. That's an aesthetic note I'm still trying to nail down to see if that's always the case. Not sure yet...but that's certainly my educated hunch right now.
 
Nick Morrison said:
WOW, Shervin. Didn't know that. Love this forum!! I know that Cooke's have a very clear OCTAGON pattern that looks A LOT like the Ninja-Star. I see it in the back of Merlots shots on True Blood, saw it in Zero Dark Thirty, and it comes up in The Hour and Downton Abby. All I believe shot on Cooke lenses.
Click to expand...

I was watching an older episode of 30 Rock today and noticed that the Christmas lights in the background had a very distinct octagon pattern. I stared at it, wondering if it was a ninja-star bokeh. Now, knowing all this, I'm gonna guess Cookes.
 
I'd say the Ninja star is something specific to Zeiss AE, the Cookes have more of a sawblade look.
I don't believe it helps with distortion, there ain't any difference regarding that on the MM lenses.
 
Nick Pasquariello said:
I was watching an older episode of 30 Rock today and noticed that the Christmas lights in the background had a very distinct octagon pattern. I stared at it, wondering if it was a ninja-star bokeh. Now, knowing all this, I'm gonna guess Cookes.
Click to expand...

I love that I'm not the only one deciphering BOKEH while I watch TV.

HAHA.
 
Uli Plank said:
I'd say the Ninja star is something specific to Zeiss AE, the Cookes have more of a sawblade look.
Click to expand...

The Cooke's have a more sawblade look because they have more iris blades than the paltry 6 on the Contax set, so the ninja star effect is less pronounced. If Cookes had the same aperture blade like the Contax's, they'd be the same.
 
Did Cooke ever state why they use such a shape?
 
Not too sure... and I could be wrong on this so someone would have to clarify, but I don't think the sawblade/ninja star effect is on the new series of 5i and Mini-Pancro's.

Perhaps older S4's suffer from that problem (Since the S4's are pushing on almost 14 years of manufacture now). Older cooke's, especially from the Speed Pancro era had pretty rough OOF bokeh areas...
 
Shervin Mandgaryan said:
Not too sure... and I could be wrong on this so someone would have to clarify, but I don't think the sawblade/ninja star effect is on the new series of 5i and Mini-Pancro's.

Perhaps older S4's suffer from that problem (Since the S4's are pushing on almost 14 years of manufacture now). Older cooke's, especially from the Speed Pancro era had pretty rough OOF bokeh areas...
Click to expand...

Yes but Uli has a point. Lens designers 20 years clearly thought the ninja-star served a purpose, otherwise we wouldn't be seeing it both within the German halls of Zeiss, and the English halls of Cooke. Though charming, it's certainly fair to call the ninja star an aesthetically risky choice: it's not present at all apertures, and it can call quite a bit of attention to itself. This leads me to assume that it's certainly possible the designers believed it delivered a technical advantage.

I think the key is to find out what this advantage/purpose was.

I think it's also fair to say the designers may have realized the ninja-star didn't do anything, because almost the entire Contax lineup made the switch to MM w/out any optical design changes at all (so it's not like the lenses had to be altered to compensate for the loss of the ninja-star). Indeed, it kinda looks like the ninja-star was unceremoniously dumped at the jump to MM.

Which still leaves us with the question? Why the ninja-star in the first place?

I find it incredibly charming. But now I want to know more. Was there originally some science BEHIND the ninja-star? Was was it supposed to ​do?
 
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