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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Codec errors...

Well heck I hope our company's actions shows that we support RED fully. Heck we have one camera already and two more on order. We love what this company is doing. Love the images that it produces and the fact that it looks like a terminator machine from the future. I don't feel the need to go on and on about how much we love RED and its philosophy. Just when Apple was starting to bore me here comes a new company kicking ass :-).

BUT... I have noticed quality issues on my camera... serious camera issues. The very first clips had a line going down the center of the image. I also had codec errors (Build 15) in the backyard filming plants... wasn't even a jungle or forest. I think those are serious issues. RED has a killer product... now focus on stability. If my macs had viruses and crashed more than PCs.. I wouldn't be an Apple aficionado now.

reality said:
Nicely said Pawel.

Bruce, do you seriously think that RED needs to be told that the codec should be bullet proof? Duh. Yes, you're a genius for stating the bloody obvious and showing you're smarter than RED.
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Well the camera has been released for a long while now and to have codec errors at all is amazing. IMHO the camera shouldn't be released with codec errors.
 
Are these codec arrors only on 30p and/or 16:9 ?

Does anybody has codec errors on 4K 2:1 24p 2:1 28/MB/sec mode?
 
Take it easy fellas. RED will correct all the errors. give them some time. patience.. patience.. they are working on a killer product.
RED has already changed the movie making landscape.. for ever.. kicking ass of century old ARRI and world wide behemoths like Sony and Panasonic.. all in just 2 years.. give them a break.. sony takes 3 years to bring a product to market..
 
Andrew said:
Are these codec arrors only on 30p and/or 16:9 ?

Does anybody has codec errors on 4K 2:1 24p 2:1 28/MB/sec mode?
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I can only answer for myself, but yes, codec errors have only happened when I pushed RC28 to its limits, ie. shooting 4K 16:9 25fps, 3K 2:1 50fps and 2K 16:9 100fps, all to CF.
 
Yes, it is what I was thinking.
I use only 4K 2:1 24p and I never have seen even once codec error.
It is like over-cranking the CPU in PC. Most of the time works but sometimes it freezes or reboots the PC.
I like the idea of going close to the limit, bringing resolution down only because 1 out of 100 times you get in to the image that can't be compressed fast enough is taking away 40% of resolving power.

It is tough job to balance the having codec errors or lack of details on the trees in the park.
Wonder what Graeme will do here, maybe some modes should be marked 'advanced' :-)
 
weirdcrew said:
I had a really hardcore US national commercial shoot with literally every take coming out with codec error after approx 15sec of shooting time. Now it was my own fault for upgrading but I figured a green screen shoot wouldn't be that bad. So YES there are some of us out there and it happens when you the least expect it.
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That sucks...just to be clear, I never meant to imply the problem doesnt exist, nor that Bruce not owning a camera makes his rants inappropriate. I only suggested that we consider that the issue may be exaggerated by the very nature of a forum.

I dont understand how one camera gets a codec error on every take while another does not. Obviously the scene has a great effect on the error, but I spent 2 days shooting a commercial on green screen, scenes that were pretty complex with lots of chrome reflections, etc and only had 2 codec errors (B16 3.1.5- 4K 16:9, 29.97, Red Drive) that never slowed us down. I have to wonder if there are other issues at play here. We tried to recreate the codec errors in our studio the following day on both a green and white cyc, and could only get 1 codec error the entire time. Could the issue be media related?

Frederick, what kind of lighting did you use (tungsten or daylight)? What was the subject?
The image below is from the pre-light day, but on the actual shoot day this shot didnt generate any errors. The two errors we had were on a very simple shot of a girl walking across frame.
 
Well, there are good reasons to shoot 16:9, for example if you want to downscale for HDTV 1080 you don't need to upscale again if you use half resolution.
And, yes, we also could provoke those errors only in 16:9.
 
just returned from night shoot music video in abandoned coal mine factory and my first time shooting RED. I decided to go build 16 which was real nerve racking. Not as nerve racking as seeing how little 120K of tungsten light did with a full blue on camera with build 15 though. So, went to 16 with half blue, which was better.

We had a few codec errors. Shooting 4K 2:1 code 28 at 30fps to REDdrive. We lost the whole shot, was annoying but we were able to go again. If we were shooting long takes with big name actors i couldn't take the chance which is unfortunate. The main issue seems to be building people's expectations that codec errors 'are a thing of the past'. It's not necessary. RED is a great camera, amazing for the price, but it could take some time to restore confidence in DP's under a lot of pressure if the hype over extends itself only to be let down. It's a classic cycle, i became obsessed that i had to shoot 16 due to my light worries! But it's not healthy for the camera or RED with the big projects and big DP's, which is where this camera will really find it's feet and get the respect it deserves.
 
Daniel Reichenbach said:
I am convinced, that ALL codec errors come from 16:9, so guys, stop that and shoot 2:1. What is the problem? You my crop it after.
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I have NEVER shot 16:9 and I got the codec errors.

-Thor
 
Why don't we give it a rest folks. I don't think the Red team has been spending their time smoking cheap cigars and watching World Wide Wrestling. I think they are working as hard as they can on the issues. Also, I mean no disrespect to Bruce, but I think that adding to the noise about quality issues does not help the actual owners of the cameras at all, nor does it help Red solve the problems. In my opinion, problems should be addressed to Red in a problem solving manner by people with both the experience and the ownership investment to give their opinion some weight. Otherwise its just a lot of noise. Again, I apologize to Bruce if my comments seem rude or elitist, but I think we should all be thinking about what helps the problem.
Rob Gardner
 
I had errors shooting RC36 4k 2:1 @ 23.98fps with a 72º shutter. We were shooting people on a white cyc. It seems to me that the new codec is having a hard time dealing with hard contrasty quick moving edges like those created when shooting on white or green. Although I've seem some posts with errors from the opposite side of the spectrum where they were shooting in a forest.
I just hope Stuart gets enough feedback and log files from everyone to fix the problems.
 
Bruce's point has been made and is valid because he is a respected member of not only this community, but of the digital media community in general. I have no problem with his statements or those who agree or disagree with him.

But to me, the approach that needs to be taken right now is a very scientific one. We need to help the Red team eliminate these problems. We need to send them the .log files and whatever other data they may need to figure out what is going on. I really think at this point, there needs to be more focus on how we're going to help solve problems rather than talking about them and complaining that they shouldn't be there. That's too easy. We need to be proactive and we need to think of this as the final stage in a rather large, complex science experiment that is 90% there and we just need to solve the remaining 10%. Regardless of whether you think this is Red's problem and not ours, the bottom line is, the cameras are out there, capturing great footage and if it means I need to send a file over to Stuart when I get some errors for the greater good of solving a problem, I am willing to do it because I do believe Red is very close to that reliability we all seek. But they can't possibly put the camera in every situation imaginable, but we can help with that because we are spread out all over the world, shooting all kinds of footage, with different frame rates, resolutions, lenses, etc. They need that data.

I would love to see this forum get more technical sometimes. Breaking down shots, how they were achieved, lighting, exposure, camera support, post processes. With 2000 cameras out there, it seems like that kind of stuff should really be dominating the forum. We should be pouring over the images we are capturing. Less talk about future features, future sensors, what's missing, what's not right, etc (not saying these aren't valid topics, just wishing there was more talk about what we do have and how people are using it).

Anyway, just my thoughts. I'm hoping we can help them get this fixed this month. I do believe they need our help.
 
You know what bothers me and what I'll bet makes Jim a little upset?

Here he's admitted the problem, and tells us he's working as fast as he can to fix it, and everyone starts complaining about the problem that he's already said he's going to fix!

He's already told you he's fixing it and it's his top priority and he and his team are working on this holiday weekend where most of us have been goofing off watching fireworks!

Let's let the man and his crew do their jobs without this drama.

D
 
David Dennis said:
You know what bothers me and what I'll bet makes Jim a little upset?

Here he's admitted the problem, and tells us he's working as fast as he can to fix it, and everyone starts complaining about the problem that he's already said he's going to fix!

He's already told you he's fixing it and it's his top priority and he and his team are working on this holiday weekend where most of us have been goofing off watching fireworks!

Let's let the man and his crew do their jobs without this drama.

D
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ok. But that's not the problem. It's the stating they are "a thing of the past" before the build was released that is the problem.
 
They are not a thing of the past and the Red team is working this weekend to fix it. This has already been clarified by the Red team. We have to move beyond the blame game here guys and help get this fixed. I feel we need everyone's help right now, so anything short of sending .log files, describing conditions when errors were encountered, etc. is not helping. Please don't take offense to that statement either, you guys know I respect everyone's opinions. It's just with this particular issue, I feel we need to be a bit more focused on the codec errors themselves.
 
k.wasley said:
ok. But that's not the problem. It's the stating they are "a thing of the past" before the build was released that is the problem.
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The claim was based on numerous alpha testers not reporting any problems in addition to our own testing and fixing known problems. From our point of view the codec errors were taken care of so we moved it into beta. The fact that the beta uncovered different conditions is a good thing and is exactly why the release goes to a wider beta group.

FUD and false assumptions do nothing to improve the camera.
 
joelnet said:
New alpha testers next time.

Just sayin'.
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you are correct..... some of the guys that have acually been sending us support tickets and log files from the camera when they get the errors instead of just bitching about it will be getting an invite next round.
 
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