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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Codec errors...

Jarred Land said:
you are correct..... some of the guys that have acually been sending us support tickets and log files from the camera when they get the errors instead of just bitching about it will be getting an invite next round.
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Bummer, I never had a problem :bleh:
 
Jarred Land said:
you are correct..... some of the guys that have acually been sending us support tickets and log files from the camera when they get the errors instead of just bitching about it will be getting an invite next round.
Click to expand...

Hey I tried to as soon as I got the beta and got errors but I didn't understand I had to unmount the drive to write the log file. I'm smarter now. :-)
 
Jarred Land said:
you are correct..... some of the guys that have acually been sending us support tickets and log files from the camera when they get the errors instead of just bitching about it will be getting an invite next round.
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Not bitching. Just mentioning.

I don't have any clients for the next few weeks, so I'm happy to test the unreleased beta.

Thanks for working so hard on all of this, Jarred.

-Thor
 
I haven't had an actual codec error yet in camera with Build 16. What I have discovered is that there may be an issue in Redcine which is causing some people to think they have an error, but possibly not. Here is the thread. I posted a comparison of the same frame with two different playback settings.
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?p=248340#post248340
If you were to see the first screenshot, you'd think something major was wrong. But the second one which is the same frame of video reveals it's perfectly fine.

So, now I need to go out and try to break the codec again, and see if I can get something in-camera, i.e. the "Codec Error" screen. If I can't break it, then either the codec errors are not there or I just wasn't able to get the right combination of factors to trigger them. At this point though, I have a pretty good idea of what has triggered them in the past (Build 15), so I will start there and see what I can get.

If I get one, I will be providing Red with .log file and full description of shooting circumstances.
 
joelnet said:
New alpha testers next time.

Just sayin'.
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It's possible for things to slip by in Alpha stage. Odds are better that potential problems will be discovered in Beta stage because Red is releasing to all owners (about 2000 of us) so the shooting variables go up dramatically and you may find things that would be difficult for a smaller pool of alpha testers to find.

I think the best thing we can do is test, test, test, and get the results back to Red ASAP so they can nip any problems in the butt now. Overall Build 16 is great. Let's see it get to Release Build quickly so everyone can enjoy it. That's why I'm testing at 2:54 AM.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
Same here. I guess I'm just not pointing the camera at the right (wrong?) subjects.
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If fish porn doesn't set off codec errors, I don't know what else will.
 
Jarred Land said:
you are correct..... some of the guys that have acually been sending us support tickets and log files from the camera when they get the errors instead of just bitching about it will be getting an invite next round.
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It would at least be useful to "see" the shots they are bitching about. The way some of the posts come in is less than useful in terms of what to look out for, etc.

If there was a constructive post detailing a situation and settings with a still shot it might actually be if some use.

Generally, I think the way some people are posting feels like the panic button is being hit.

Red team is so responsive I never understand peoples need to think they are somehow "exposing" some kind of huge weakness in the camera.

I have had several shoots on 16 and tried to break the codec and can't but if I did I'd be telling RED about it, because that might actually be a CONSTRUCTIVE exercise.

Just my two cents. Beta is not a release build so this exercise is designed to benefit everyone NOT make them scared shitless of a great build, with at least 10 great advantages compared to some of the negatives a few are experiencing. This is what Beta is about. People fly into production with it and then panic when it doesn't "do" what it is supposed to.

David
 
This is what I wary about, that we do need is a positive feedback as well.
I tried to form a thread for positive feedback in complaint department but it didn’t last long.
When people are happy they do not post as much as when they are unhappy and it is what makes companies to go underground with the new development.
Bad news spreads much faster that the good ones. (maybe not on this board)

I like the fact that RED guys are not ‘pussies’, they do what they say and they say what they do.
 
Andrew said:
Bad news spreads much faster that the good ones.
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So true Andrew. I was in a business once and we had a customer who kept calling and coming by the office while complaining he hadn't received his check. My partner checked with higher ups and the paperwork said he did. The man said some unflattering things about our company before realizing he HAD received the check and didn't make the connection.

He apologized and I just said that I hoped he would be as diligent in telling others that we had fulfilled our obligation as he was about saying otherwise. To his credit, he did just that.

I'm afraid there isn't enough of that admission when proven wrong, from the naysayers on this board. Someone should keep score so we can know who is constructively critical, or just chronically so.
 
number6 said:
Someone should keep score so we can know who is constructively critical, or just chronically so.
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Absurd... the RED gestapo. That would really help out REDs image.
 
There is not many owners that are critical by default, you are right Dave, but quite a few that do not owe the camera, get the short contact with RED, and jump to the conclusion.
For regular users of this board it doesn't change anything, but casual user could find the criticism more often just because of its gravity.
BTW does anybody knows how to search here with AND.
I did try
"sensor*dynamic*range"
or
"sensor dynamic range"

what separator is AND and which is OR?
 
A Suggestion

A Suggestion

I am convinced that it's a great thing that Red is doing by having this open forum. It is of great benefit to all of us, at least most of the time.
It obviously also puts Red at great risk.
I am convinced too that Red by putting the development out "in public" has made rapid development possible, (the more people testing, the quicker you find bugs and fix them).

I spent quite a few years developing cutting edge products, and any of you who are over 40 have most likely benefitted from at least one of them. So, I can speak from experience.
I am sure that when the people at Red hear of any problem with the camera, they are VERY concerned, and make it a priority to get it fixed. (That should be obvious from the way they have responded to complaints and suggestions so far).

What Ben Franklin once said is also true though: "A reputation is like fine china: easily broken and never well mended".
It's also true that with any privelege comes some responsibility.
We pride ourselves in the USA on our freedom of speech, but sometimes forget that our founding fathers did not mean complete freedom. It has always been ilegal to say something untrue and harmful. The old illustration often used was yelling FIRE in a crowded theatre.

Red would be harmed by not being told of problems with the camera.
The users would be less well served if we could not discuss issues and solutions with each other.
But, it would help us all, if everyone were to report their issues and even feature requests in a factual, non emotional manner.

Whenever anyone "throws a fit" about a problem in public about a Red issue, they don't do their own image any good, and they don't help anyone else either. Those things stick with people and leave a very bad taste about the company, it's product, and even the person who posted the message.

It should be obvious to anyone who owns or hopes to own a Red camera, that the better received the product is, the more useful your camera will be.

So, I urge you to please, wait 'till you cool down if necessary, and then write. Absolutely everyone will be better off. Not only that, imagine if you make a big scene and then discover that you did something foolish, how will you then feel. Even in our age of computers, words usually can never be taken back or undone.

Dave Neathery
 
Daniel Reichenbach said:
As far as I know Bruce, he is a RED believer and connected to reduser since the very first days and what he is saying make sense – on one hand. I have the feeling, that a lot redusers from the very first day of the REDdream begin to loose there passion, patiences and believes – and that will weaken the ground that the RED philosophy depends on. Thats not good at all. So guys, I tell you, why I can't be totally agree with Bruce: My point of view is based on an other background and thinking: RED is the most genious thing I had in hand since my last 30 years of shooting (except to 35mm film). It is genious not only, because most of the time (98%) I have NO problem with it but also, because it is the best picture for the best money you get. The camera is in BETA? OK, the builts are in BETA? Ok. I KNOW, as user, I know, but in a very advanced stage. RED NEVER told something else even if they would LOVE to cut every problem as fast as possible. Everybody knows that and I also knew, that it will take time to make this camera 100% perfect. So why this impatience?

For me RED is perfect right now, because it IS THE ONLY WAY that I can shoot a 35mm picture in ALL of my productions and not just in 20%, when there is enough budget (Switzerland is a rich country but to small for a big film industry and big film budgets).

Compared to other REDusers, who want to rent or work with their camera for other directors or companies, I have an advantage: I have my own production company (with a partner and 3 employees), I am my own chief, hire myself with RED222 as director/cameraman, cut, compose, grade ASO my films by myself – and don't have to worry, that I will fire myself out of a job, if the camera has his bad day (and my clients would never really know if there is a problem or not, because, when there is a problem, I don't show them until the job is done perfect)

AND, in my eyes an other essential thing, why a lot of people don't like the idea, that RED could cause problems: because they aren't familiar at all with the digital technology and come from a quiet save and controlled film background. So it is easier for them to say, RED is not my thing than to loose their face. I work since many years with soft- and hardware. All of them had there bucks and problems even when they were out of BETA. I've learned to live with it and trained over all this years a sensuality for this kind of problems and don't loose my nerves on that (most of the time, hehehe).

When RED will grow in this market, RED has to be perfect in the near future, I totally agree on that with Bruce and I'm convinced that this is also the credo of the RED team, why should they work day and night if not? Until then, let's shoot on a camera which is 98% perfect (I have to say, that I shot a large greenscreen job two days ago with built 16/3.1.6 and had NO codec errors at all) Woodoo? Don't know.
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Very well said Daniel!

I shot test Plates for a 3 letter network during a NASCAR race with build 15 on turn one. As the cars came into the frame @ 200 MPH we had codec errors shooting at 102 frame per second. The problem was predictable, and the solution seemed clear, Change from red code 28 to red code 36.

Lossless compression works harder with more information, or ( different levels ) of information that are very similar. Most codec's have a difficult time reproducing shots like a full frame of a gravel parking lot. Digital cinema will bring a new level of quality at a never before seen low price point, but we all must work hard to understand this "new" technology and how to best use it.

If your not comfortable with technology or understanding how it works, Red may not be for you. Is the camera 100% NO, but what camera is?

I ordered two cameras as I always want a back up camera, this is rule one in the rental market place, rule two, know your equipment in side & out, rule three if you don't have skin like an alligator...do something else!

Dave
 
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