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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

CineForm News

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In the forming of RED, when most were calling us a scam, Apple stepped in and embraced what we were doing. Hence, the Apple-centric beginning. But we also understand that the PC/Adobe world is important and should not be ignored. Which is why we spent considerable development energy on REDCINE... which started out as a PC based application with avi support coming. We have done our best, given the short history of RED, to try to balance our efforts.

There is no question that the future holds RED solutions for all workflows and platforms. It makes no sense to exclude customers. But you have to know that when we started we placed many calls to companies that were never returned. Apple answered the phone.

Jim
 
Rudi Herbert said:
But truth is, if Cineform were not recompressing the already compressed REDCODE, I doubt there would be these quality issues at all.
Click to expand...

The examples put up by us did not include any recompressing. So that will only add to the artifacting. You also can't just have the Cineform engine decode our wavelet file (which is why they are not using it in their command line tool).

We understand all the workflow needs and we have said many times we're working on adding support on all sorts of different levels and platforms.
 
Jannard said:
But you have to know that when we started we placed many calls to companies that were never returned. Apple answered the phone.
Click to expand...

As did Assimilate!
 
Rob Lohman said:
The examples put up by us did not include any recompressing. So that will only add to the artifacting. You also can't just have the Cineform engine decode our wavelet file (which is why they are not using it in their command line tool).
Click to expand...

Rob,

I meant that Cineform is starting from REDCODE, an already compressed solution, and then adding their own demosaicing. If they were able to take the RAW feed from the sensor as REDCODE does, and as Cineform does with the SI-2K, then I think the quality of their excellent codec would be obvious. That's all I said. Being the original compressor from the raw source, Cineform is amazingly clean, malleable and high quality. Then again, so is REDCODE.

Jim, eagerly awaiting REDCODE AVI, or whatever you guys decide to call it...
 
You know I can't shake the feeling that this decision was already made and we're being set up for the fall.

I sure hope I'm wrong.

We need this app. Pure and simple. It would be a shame to have it taken from us.

Jim, you asked me why the need was so urgent, and I answered it.

I can read the subtext of what you've written. Not only were you talking about who answered your phone calls, you're talking about who "didn't".

But we're here now and things change..

My two cents.

Jay
 
New R3D2DPX build v1.04

New R3D2DPX build v1.04

While the discussion seems to have moved on to other issues, we have just uploaded a build that addresses the demosaicing quality. The new tool will now default to a higher quality debayering filter, which is a little slower, impacting frame throughput only about 10%. If you want the old debayer, add the -d0 switch. Also in this build there is a fix for the -s switch for set the DPX start frame number.

It is not CineForm's intent to be in any way be of less quality than that of Red own workflows. We apologize if it seems we were going for speed at the expensive of quality. This is beta, so there will be issues, but we intend to turn reported issues around ASAP.

Here are the new samples matching Graeme's test parameters (although I used After Effects, not very good with Photoshop.)

Stock images : http://www.miscdata.com/cineform/ComparisonsStock.png
Matching sharpness : http://www.miscdata.com/cineform/ComparisonsMatchSharpness.png
Unsharp Mask +500% 0.6 radius : http://www.miscdata.com/cineform/ComparisonsUnSharp500.png
Unsharp Mask +500% 0.6 radius Saturation +50 : http://www.miscdata.com/cineform/ComparisonsUnSharp500+Sat50.png

Please do these test yourselves, just in case I have messed up.

The new tool is available here: http://www.cineform.com/products/TechNotes/R3DConvert.htm
 
:sorcerer:

I bet $100 there's a bunch of people running like hell to that download site to get this thing on the chance RED tries to murder it!

:)

I know I did.

Thanks for the fixes David... I'll check them out A.S.A.P.

Jay

Jim, I have a lot of faith in you and RED.. I proved that long ago with $1,000.00... I have to believe, one way or the other, you will do the right thing. For all of us.
 
as a side-note...

as a side-note...

fwiw... out of my own need (since Redcine wasn't working on 4k files on my box) I wrote my own utility, on my own, that does something similar to what r3d2dpx does, except I didn't bother to do any debayer, so the output is only 1/2 the input resolution, with a fixed colorspace (what Redcine calls "Camera RGB, Gamma = 2.0"). My utility is useful to me because it allows me to do immediate previews on my PC laptop of what can be processed more completely on other computers at some other time.

I did it because I wanted it and it didn't exist yet. I did it in my spare time over about a month (most of that chasing dead ends.) I was kind of proud of having done it, but being aware that the powers that be have a certain sensitivity on certain issues, I didn't want to make waves. I mentioned it privately to a few folks but I didn't announce it publicly.

I'm just a hobbyist programmer with some personal project. I'm sure people with actual resources can, and will do more... as they are in fact doing. David's program is already way ahead of mine, so there's little point in mine anymore. I look forward to trying his updated version.
 
Jay A. Kelley said:
You know I can't shake the feeling that this decision was already made and we're being set up for the fall.

I sure hope I'm wrong.

We need this app. Pure and simple. It would be a shame to have it taken from us.

Jim, you asked me why the need was so urgent, and I answered it.

I can read the subtext of what you've written. Not only were you talking about who answered your phone, you're talking about who "didn't".

But we're here now and things change.. Got to change with them, for the good of the program.

My two cents.

Jay
Click to expand...

Boom, this is why David answered the call.

Will this app. be taken from you?
I would think, no
 
comparison of old, new R3D2DPX with Redcine

comparison of old, new R3D2DPX with Redcine

The new version of R3D2DPX is a clear improvement from my point of view. Here's one example at 200% view (PS resample: nearest-neighbor) comparing R3D2DPX v.103 from yesterday, the new v.104 from today, and Redcine.

Debayer-Compare-104.gif

This target is decidedly artificial; it is a red-blue zone chart, which is a stress test for GRGB Bayer sensors. Original 2k and 4k R3D files available here (above is from 2k R3D)
http://www.bealecorner.org/red/test-080108/index.html#Test_3

Needless to say, anyone wanting to use anything new in the processing chain (hardware or software) bears the responsibility to do their own tests.
 
Jannard said:
In the forming of RED, when most were calling us a scam, Apple stepped in and embraced what we were doing. Hence, the Apple-centric beginning. But we also understand that the PC/Adobe world is important and should not be ignored. Which is why we spent considerable development energy on REDCINE... which started out as a PC based application with avi support coming. We have done our best, given the short history of RED, to try to balance our efforts.

There is no question that the future holds RED solutions for all workflows and platforms. It makes no sense to exclude customers. But you have to know that when we started we placed many calls to companies that were never returned. Apple answered the phone.

Jim
Click to expand...

Your esteem in my eyes has always been high, and nothing has changed. Keeping ones word is old school. As much as I regret the alliance decisions you initially (possibly) had to make, I fully respect your decision to honor those agreements.

CineForm has other assists for us PC guys... it's not like there aren't options. And I am convinced you will create a pathway for all including Linux users as well, in time.

I'm used to not having things "my way" in everything, so it's no big deal to me.
 
Videodisc said:
Are you sure Jay? I just downloaded something (1/17/08: v1.04). I hope.

Frank
Click to expand...

Jim tells us that build 14 will render Cineform's command line app all but useless, he has all but threatened Cineform NOT to fix the build when 14 comes out.

There are solutions to this problem that do not involve Cineform, but REDUser.net is no longer the place to share them

I hate to say it, but we've been forced underground until REDCine becomes usable. That's all there is to say. Jim has done what he's done to insure the success of his business, now I must do the same.

Regardless of what these agreements of RED's are designed to do, my post decisions will not be dictated to me by my camera. It doesn't work that way.

Jay

Jay
 
Jay A. Kelley said:
Jim tells us that build 14 will render Cineform's command line app all but useless, he has all but threatened Cineform NOT to fix the build when 14 comes out.
Click to expand...


You sure about that....Think CF will lie down for Red. It IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN
 
Jay A. Kelley said:
Jim tells us that build 14 will render Cineform's command line app all but useless, he has all but threatened Cineform NOT to fix the build when 14 comes out.

There are solutions to this problem that do not involve Cineform, but REDUser.net is no longer the place to share them

I hate to say it, but we've been forced underground until REDCine becomes usable. That's all there is to say. Jim has done what he's done to insure the success of his business, now I must do the same.

Regardless of what these agreements of RED's are designed to do, my post decisions will not be dictated to me by my camera. It doesn't work that way.

Jay

Jay
Click to expand...

A HAH! I KNEW IT! You aren't really Jay, are you! You are galexander and you have taken over Jay's body! Now you are going to write your oun bridge between R3D files and Cineform!

You'll not get away with it Moriarity! I mean, Chaos.

Watson! bring me my pipe. I'm having a nicotine fit.
 
Jay.. take your medication. your scaring me.
 
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