Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Canon's new C700

Steve Conry said:
i think you are confusing color depth and color science. The color science of canons are pretty first rate, although they are surely limited in "elasticity" given their often 8 bit color depth."
Click to expand...

Canon DSLRs have a very stylized look which is a result of sensor specifics like the color filters + etc, and also many in-camera acrobatics - color and image processing. Even if you get a 12-bit raw out of the camera, much of the original color information comming from the RGB photosites has been lost/modified due to Canon forcing its Canon color on you with their proprietary process which is their secret sauce. Due to this secret sauce I always felt in color corrections that I can't force the picture my way (like with other cameras) because Canon heavily forced it their own way and their way is not compatible with mine.

So with their Raw you are getting a heavily graded bayered picture format. Both the sensor parameters affecting color response and in camera color processing (even adjusting for color filter light transmission characteristics) is what I call color science - not sure if the term has a different fxed meaning when it comes to cameras.

I find it simply very suspect that Canon has put the DSLR colors into the C700 when they didn't do it with the C300 or C500. If it was such a no-brainer that their DSLR color science was so great, why didn't they do it from the start?
 
Last edited:
Walking through a Transformers sequel shoot location in Chicago a few years ago there were C500s on jibs all over the place. Whether you like it or not nobody in their right mind could honestly suggest Transformers isn't a cinema film could they?
 
It's certainly an interesting camera. I think there's a fair amount of validity to some concerns regarding price. Canon have NEVER been the cheapest. They do what they do.

For me the key point from this camera is the sensor. I understand this camera offers far better ergonomics and recording options, however I did a lot of testing on the C300MKII and I found it didn't have the same colour science that created such pretty pictures on V1. I'd expect the C700 to perform similarly as its using Canon Log 2 and 3 etc. This is all my own personal opinion of course, but is the result of hands on testing with the C300MKII.
 
Noel Evans said:
It's certainly an interesting camera. I think there's a fair amount of validity to some concerns regarding price. Canon have NEVER been the cheapest. They do what they do.

For me the key point from this camera is the sensor. I understand this camera offers far better ergonomics and recording options, however I did a lot of testing on the C300MKII and I found it didn't have the same colour science that created such pretty pictures on V1. I'd expect the C700 to perform similarly as its using Canon Log 2 and 3 etc. This is all my own personal opinion of course, but is the result of hands on testing with the C300MKII.
Click to expand...
Useful input as usual coming from you Noel, thanks.

E :-)
 
Steve Conry said:
How can anyone possibly know that at this point without having personally shot on it?
Click to expand...

Because it offers better data rates and framerates for less money and has onboard raw

I mean, maybe it'll smoke the Scarlet-W on low light and dynamic range performance, but for the price difference it'll have to *really* smoke it to be the better value.

Or, perhaps a better way to put it would be; "YMMV, depending on budget and performance needs, but for me, at the C700's price and feature set, I wouldn't be interested even if the sensor performance was revolutionary on par with the move from the D2x to the D3 (and, FWIW, DPReview saying the 5D IV is still a little behind the D810 tells me Canon isn't capable of that kind of sensor revolution right now). So no sensor tests needed."
 
Steve Conry said:
Speculation is kinda pointless until the camera is in the world and testing is done. (snip)
Click to expand...

The wording in my post was: "the cost creates a big "show me" hurdle". I never suggested that it was impossible for the C700 to be a good value for the price. My point was, at that price, it had a lot to prove to justify the delta vs the C300Mk2 and C500.

Cheers - #19
 
I did a test with the C700, a Varicam Pure, and an Alexa XT last week. The C700 isn't really targeted to the Scarlet-W crowd. It's a competitor to the Sony F55 and Red Weapon for 4K capture requirements for Netflix and Amazon. The C700 feels good, internal NDs are awesome, image looks crisp and smooth. Direct raw recording to the Codex back-end is going to allow for a lot of flexibility with the image. I wasn't that excited when the camera was first announced but after seeing it I think it's going to do well.

BTW to get the most out of the C700 you'll need the Codex recorder, mags, download station, and production suite software. These are all expensive pieces of the puzzle. The new 2TB Codex mags list for about $8500 each I believe.
 
Ben Scott said:
Aston Martin / Hackett piece shot on Pre-production C700 and some C300s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjKD_U2Rfx8
Click to expand...

It looks great. Great skins. I'm far more impressed by this than the 8k demo video which is talked about in another thread, where super bright saturated primary colors are shot (any part with caucasian skins is suddenly a disappointment, they still look lifeless). Any modern camera will capture these loud color subjects with exactly the same quality, sometimes even better. This C700 is way more subtle, making these neutral grey/beige colors look really great. And it's clean.

Adrian Jebef said:
I did a test with the C700, a Varicam Pure, and an Alexa XT last week. The C700 isn't really targeted to the Scarlet-W crowd. It's a competitor to the Sony F55 and Red Weapon for 4K capture requirements for Netflix and Amazon. The C700 feels good, internal NDs are awesome, image looks crisp and smooth. Direct raw recording to the Codex back-end is going to allow for a lot of flexibility with the image. I wasn't that excited when the camera was first announced but after seeing it I think it's going to do well.

BTW to get the most out of the C700 you'll need the Codex recorder, mags, download station, and production suite software. These are all expensive pieces of the puzzle. The new 2TB Codex mags list for about $8500 each I believe.
Click to expand...

What do you think of the Varicam?
 
Last edited:
Varicam is cool. Really interesting color separation. The 5000 ISO mode is very useful in certain situations but then again the C700 can be bumped up to 25,000 or something ridiculous. Our ACs preferred the way the C700 felt in terms of build quality. The Varicam looks like a great camera but Panasonic has been out of the high-end S35 camera game so unfortunately I don't think they will gain much traction. Canon on the other hand has maintained a strong market segment that the C700 will most likely expand upon. The fact that this new camera can swap out the sensor block and has room in the body for new processing boards seems like a very smart move. Hopefully it's just a matter of time before they introduce a full-frame sensor.
 
Adrian Jebef said:
Varicam is cool. Really interesting color separation. The 5000 ISO mode is very useful in certain situations but then again the C700 can be bumped up to 25,000 or something ridiculous.
Click to expand...

By that math then the AS7II or whatever it is performs better because it goes to 250,000 ISO. That 5000ISO mode is entirely different in that it's a native ISO, with +1db noise over 800 and maintains the same DR.
 
Noel Evans said:
By that math then the AS7II or whatever it is performs better because it goes to 250,000 ISO. That 5000ISO mode is entirely different in that it's a native ISO, with +1db noise over 800 and maintains the same DR.
Click to expand...

Is there a comparison of 5000 ISO of Varicam & Canon ? May be someone can do a side by side of the C300 mark II and the varicam, since C700 is yet to be released.
 
Sabyasachi Patra said:
Is there a comparison of 5000 ISO of Varicam & Canon ? May be someone can do a side by side of the C300 mark II and the varicam, since C700 is yet to be released.
Click to expand...

No, but I've shot both. C300 is pretty good at 5000, can't deny that. Better than any other camera on the market, apart from the Varicam35 / LT. Clear noise difference. The other side is of course because the Varicam can do 5000 native, when going to lower ISO from 5000 bases say 3200 you're actually applying a negative gain.

Adrian Jebef said:
The C700 is not an A7s.
Click to expand...

Certainly isn't, however my comment was based on the comparison made that one camera goes to 25,000ISO.
 
I agree the C700 is more suited to compete with cameras like the Sony F5/F55, but as usual it's overpriced and features are 3-4 years behind Sonys… and 9 years behind RED :laugh:

Anyway as an F55 owner for the past 3.5 years and from what I do know about the C700 so far, I wrote about my F55 vs C700 impressions here:

 
Checked it last week.

Looks like a pretty capable camera. AC friendly and designed for a heavy production workflow. UI is practical. EVF is great. Highlights hold well in Log2. This thing spits out 4 independent video feeds.

Not aiming for average Reduser market and not as versatile but still a good camera. Hats off to Canon team.

11rzs5i.jpg


29vkn41.jpg
 
Length feels okay. I'd say a touch longer than F55 but no dimension related issues. I couldn't test the shoulder feel properly because it wasn't balanced for HH and the new zoom is very light but OLED 1080p EVF is excellent. There wasn't a raw recorder there but I assume based on the feel that C700 with Codex RAW module is at home on sticks and dollies. It feels noticeably lighter than Amira in this setup, though.

Btw there was a projection of that ultra sensitive 35 mm ME-20F_GJ86DFT9-KHwhatever and seeing a video of a starry sky and Aurora Borealis is a pretty special experience. Quite an amazing accomplishment.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top